People are not buying EVs

Toyota was right all along, others were too ambitious. Now they are forced to give discounts on existing cars and are slowing down production of more card. Tesla is delaying the construction of their new plant while Toyota is rushing to finish building their battery plant in the US. Expect Toyota to flood the market with plugin hybrids in a couple of years.

 

IBTL

I think plug in hybrids are the best overall option for a lot of buyers. But, full EV's definitely have a purpose as well.

 

My next car will have the Hydrogen V8 that Toyota is making. I find EVs very boring

 

They’re actually a lot of fun to drive if you get the right ones.

My neighbor’s Model 3 with the dual motor high performance option is the most brutal thing I’ve been in. It’s capable of giving you whiplash.

 

I tend to agree. Even though some of them are ridiculously fast, I don't see them being as enjoyable as a regular ICE sports car with a manual transmission.

I could definitely see an electric 4×4 having some serious advantages over ICE 4×4's.

 

No noise, no fun. I would rather get the 3 cylinder Corolla GR than to get super fast EV

 

Hydrogen is the closest thing to ICE. As technology grows we will have much more powerful hydrogen engines

 

They're way too expensive. I've owned 5 plug-in hybrids (all Chevy Volt's) & 5 hybrids (all Prius), and despite being told that I would take "the leap" to a full EV like a lot of other consumers after owning a plug-in hybrid/regular hybrid, I ended up buying my 23 4Runner. I will wait until things equal out a little.

People say "you went from a Volt to an SUV?! you must spend a ton in gas now!" Actually, no. My business grabs my fuel tab Actually driving the Volt cost me more, as I would charge it at home a lot. Business does not reimburse my electric bill.

And after looking at the Mach-e and Tesla Model Y, I couldn't bring myself to spend that kind of money on what I see are cars that are still too small for the price. Although the performance is impressive.... wasn't enough to tilt the decision in EV's favor for me.

 

Zoomy car noises are fine but a 3 second 0-60 never gets old; the cheapest Tesla is far more fun to drive on paved roads than my 4r. Sad but true.

It also would have been cheaper with the rebate, not to mention drastically lower operating costs, even without the free charging at work. Went with a certain SUV instead for several dumb reasons:

1. Wanted another hobby car. Teslas ain't that.
2. Didn't feel like installing a charger.
3. They're too popular. Granted, the 5th gen ain't exactly rare but at least I can find it in the parking lot.
4. They look boring. Not bad, but familiarity breeds contempt.

 

This is what I've been saying all along.

They're too expensive, range anxiety, and charging times are the factors why people aren't buying them like hot bread. Not only that, for us that live in cold climates the battery capacity goes down significantly.

 

All the "EV's aren't selling" articles are a little disingenuous. EVs sales in 2023 are on pace to pass 1 million for the first time ever.

https://jalopnik.com/ev-sales-could-hit-1-million-in-the-u-s-for-the-first-1851016688

 

Oddly enough, I go the opposite way.

Are Ferraris fun to drive? Yes, and I’ve had the pleasure of doing so…and the power of an EV compared to the Ferrari is stunning.

One pedal driving is super fun in the twisties.

 

By that metric, I encourage you to check out the E-350 van that Ford made before switching to the Transit.

The V8 made a ton of noise in those.

 

My brother just redid his wish bone suspension on his E350. That thing has over 200k miles and just keeps going

 

Ehh. I tend to think of driving a sports car as a form of entertainment. The sound of the engine is part of the experience. EV's are obviously super fast, but that's not the full purpose of a sports car IMO. Even with an ICE vehicle, I'd take a manual transmission over an automatic, knowing that I'll never be able to shift as fast, just because it's more fun to drive stick.

Ymmv, but I'll bet I'm not alone.

 

I forgot who it was, but I heard a while back that one manufacturer (or more) designed gas engine noise in their EV for the driver experience. lol.

 

That study was funded by a Texas-based think tank.

Perhaps they might be a bit biased.

 

That's why those things were the choice of many a band on a budget.

 

Have you driven a car with a DSG? Those things blow conventional manuals out of the water in terms of performance and fun. I test drove a Golf R with one, and it was absolutely insane - first test drive of a car where I actually was worried about getting pulled over.

EVs do make noise though. You hear the tires squeal, your passengers complaining...it's good fun. Powering out of a corner with no lag is just fantastic. I LOVE the onramp to I-94 westbound out of Delafield in my wife's car. In the 4Runner it's a game of how much momentum can I carry into the last corner so that I have a chance of not getting creamed by a semi truck.

 

The salesmen aren't doing their job and the economy sucks ass.

But I am looking forward to Toyota fuel cell electric vehicles when they come. Way better idea then EV.

 

"But it's a meme, it must be true!"

Yep, I read something about that not too long ago, that was funded by an organization with ties to the fossil fuel industry.

Edit: here's an article about it. Apologies for posting two Jalopnik articles in one day. I think the author makes some good points about all the subsidies involved in the fossil fuel industry.

https://jalopnik.com/fossil-fuel-think-tank-electricity-costs-17-per-gallon-1850990794

 

That’s the mistake EV makers are making. They think “brutal” is better. It’s not. Look at us all here driving our dinosaurs and we love it.

 

Some people actually enjoy shifting with a clutch and selecting gears. A DSG would be fantastic on a track, but not as much fun as an old school manual transmission on a Sunday drive.

Say what you want, but an electric motor will never sound like a well tuned ICE.

Comparing the performance of a tiny EV to a 4Runner doesn't really prove anything, especially since the 4Runner is one of the slower ICE vehicles you can drive. I've taken the HWY C on ramp plenty of times in mine, and I'm still alive.

 

I assumed that was a joke.

I'd love to see the mental gymnastics that led to that conclusion.

 

We talk about enthusiasts and engine noises here, but the majority of the driving public is not an enthusiast. They just need something to get them to work and back into the store. Nothing wrong with an EV for that purpose.

And personally, I like V8 engine noises. With those going away, I could care less if I ever heard a six or four cylinder again. I recently drove my brother-in-law's EV. It was a cool experience, punching that thing from 30 was a kick in the ass I've never felt before. And that was just a VW ID4, not even anything that fast. I had a ear to ear grin on my face, I did it a few more times. That instant acceleration is amazing. No waiting for the trans to figure out what it needs to do and kick down, no waiting for boost to build, no need for get to hit its power band, just instant reaction.

I think why sales are slowing down is that a lot of the early adopters and people that really wanted them have gotten them. Also, what are most of the EVs? Small cars and sedans, and luxury vehicles. What have most manufacturers stopped producing, because they don't sell: small cars and sedans.

Once there are more SUV and CUV choices for people, I believe sales will rise again.

I wouldn't mind an EV as a commuter, if I had a place to charge, but not as my only vehicle. The only EV that ticks all the boxes for me is the Rivian R1S, and that is 3X my budget.

 

I would buy that van if I needed a van. We are talking cars now, and EVs are super boring, they have no soul.

 

Yup, it is all about experience, sitting in the passenger seat is no fun, you want to drive. EVs are handicapped

 

It's also that car companies don't know how TF to design these things.

Look, I'm going to say something controversial here: people don't need to be driving trucks and SUVs at anywhere near the numbers they do. The auto companies are exploiting the flaw in CAFE that was meant to help out people that actually use trucks for work.

According to the government, these are trucks:



So are these:



You can take the kids to soccer practice in this without a CDL:



The GVWR of this thing is higher than the maximum that was allowed by law for a single axle vehicle under the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956.

Oh, and this POS is a truck:




All thanks to CAFE...

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/how-cafe-killed-compact-trucks-and-station-wagons/

CAFE has ruined the automotive market. Manufacturers have convinced people they need bigger vehicles when in reality we need better designed ones that provide more space within a given footprint for a given weight.

Now, car companies are insisting on making the same sort of electric vehicles they'd make as if they were building gas powered vehicles. NOBODY, not even Ford, wants a Mustang Mach-E. It's just dumb.

EVs work best when they are as aerodynamic as possible - which means low to the ground, and minimal frontal area. Meanwhile, what are all the companies designing? Vehicles that are the opposite.

What they need to start doing to bringing vehicles to market that do things that gas powered vehicles can't.