New owner, new lift and new alignment headaches

Hey all, new 22' ORP owner here. Very excited to own this truck after selling my TRD Pro and regretting it.

After owning it for roughly three weeks, I decided to install the well known 5100 / OME lift kit. 5100s all around with OME 884 front and 895e in the rear. Overall the lift turned out great (2.5 front and 1.5 rear)

I also threw on some -12 Fuel Shoks wrapped in Toyo RT Trails in 285/70r17.

Was totally expecting to rub but I don't. Did the front fender mod and pulled the front flaps off before installing the wheels and tires and it works! Lock to lock, all is well.. I can tell though that if I go crawl, there would be some minor rubbing on the front bumper. Nothing an inch off the top wouldn't remedy.

Anyways..

I am struggling to get this aligned. Two shops have tried to get my caster up but state it's "maxed out". Everything I read says stock UCAs can handle 2.5 inches of lift and still get some decent caster numbers.

This is the best my local shop can muster.....

Do I need UCAs? Should a shop be able to get this dialed in better with stock UCAs?

Thanks!



Here's the truck!

 

Looks great. I did a similar suspension upgrade but added SPC upper control arms and the alignment is perfect.

 

Two alignments and the resulting numbers seem to say UCAs are needed. No 2 4Rs are exactly the same, it seems.

 

I've got 2.5 inches (pro with Eibach) my caster is 1.6 on the LF and 1.9 on RF which is a perfect split and rides great. Your split is the wrong way which could cause a drift to the right, But your split was the wrong way before too so if there was no drift you'd be ok there. The camber is a little higher than I like tho, I'd get a third shop to check it, someone with a new machine you can trust is calibrated and weigh all three, I would think you should be able to get it closer with stock arms.

 

I wouldn't keep wasting money on alignments. Talk to a shop that is familiar with adjustable upper control arms on Toyotas. Get them to install a pair and dial your rig in. Looks great, BTW!

 

Thanks for the suggestions, all. I went ahead and ordered some ARB UCAs to hopefully get this aligned a little better. It seems to drive OK but it does drift a bit at higher speeds.

 

Sorry to hear that you are unable to get to factory Caster setting with the OEM UCA’s.

I have 5100’s on my 2021 TRD OR with Dobinsons springs for. 2 1/2” Front and 2” Rear lift. I decided to go with JBA UCA when I did the lift to avoid what you are experiencing. I am able to get 4.9 degrees Caster with these UCA and have perfect alignment and tracking.

You may have to get new UCA to get a good alignment.

Cheers,
Bob

 

No 2 alignment techs are exactly the same, it seems.

 

At least the truck looks bad a$$

 

interesting. i'm curious where the LCA cams ended up after all of this. the amount of positive camber feels like they kept going in the wrong direction with it to try to pull more caster out... weird.

i sort of feel like a better effort could have been made to correct that and bring things closer to spec.

i’m at about 2.5ish stock UCA.

 

The higher you lift, the lower your caster numbers with stock UCAs and the harder it is for your caster to meet minimum spec......which is pretty much where you are. You might be able to get a little more out of the stock UCA's, but not much.

You're fine to drive it like it is but if you want the steering to feel a little heavier and tighter, aftermarket UCA's will give you that.

Just be careful not to get UCA's that pull your wheel back towards the cab with a built in caster adjustment. Some of these could potentially cause you to rub with your negative offset.

https://youtu.be/huMztKaHsUE?si=hGPiY5I6DC89tdSX

 

Looks good. Like most everyone said probably need aftermarket UCA’s. I went with JBA’s myself. How are you liking those RT Trails and what Load are they?

 

I'd look for a shop that specializes in 4×4's. 2.5" seems to be in the area where UCA's are needed. But, I would think a decent shop should at least be able to get it close.

 

I'm pretty sure that's below spec for caster on these trucks.

 

how else does an aftermarket UCA add more caster if it doesn’t reposition the spindle toward the body?

 

Agree. That is exactly what it will do to increase caster. How about, don’t get the “high caster” version. JBA sells a normal and high caster version.

 

Roughly 2 deg of caster is decent enough if steering feel OK to you.

Beware most upgrade UCAs will pull the upper ball joint closer to the firewall and likely necessitate a cab mount chop, especially with your -12mm wheels.

 

A few upgrade UCAs like SPC and Icon/TC/Camburg with heim inner pivots, offer camber adjustment. That allows you to crank the LCA cam bolts to max caster, then dial in camber with the UCA. However, those UCAs are very high maintenance (think yearly inner joint replacement).

 

Yes but once you stray from the factory engineered suspension (lift) those specs are academic, a starting place. You then must defer to ride and handling characteristics. I was prepared for UCA's if needed but couldn't tell any difference in the lower caster, it drives great.

 

Check the video I posted. It shows exactly how.

 

It's good that yours is riding well, but I don't think a lift is a reason to throw away the factory specs. If anything , folks are usually trying to get the caster at max spec. I know it's partially to get the tires away from the firewall, but it also helps the vehicle wander less.

I could be wrong, though. I don't have a ton of experience with lifted trucks, so I'm just going by what I've read.

 

ive seen that video already. if we're using that video as reference then it begs the question i asked about what position the LCA cams are sitting at.

further more, keeping the tire off of the body mount will require an adjustable UCA, and with the issues the OP is already having with two different aligment shops - what more with adjustable UCA? Most alignment shops won't touch aftermarket adjustable suspension components.

 

That was a very eye opening video. I'm surprised there's not more focus on moving the LCA forward as a fix rather than moving the UCA rearwards.

 

High-caster LCAs are trickier to engineer (more potential clearance issues with CV boot, tie rod, and coilover clearance). The LCA also takes a lot more load being closer to the contact patch, so it uses more material and more welding.
Only stock-width high-caster LCA I know of ($1700): https://btffabrication.com/collections/toyota-1/products/10-21-4runner-high-caster-lca

 

Ouch! Those look great though.

And maybe the price isn't bad, depending on what you're trying to do. If you were replacing LCAs anyway (600-ish for stock) and these eliminate the need for UCAs (600ish), these only work out to be about $500 extra. (Link shows a price of $1679. If that's EACH, then forget it)

 

^Yeah my mistake. $1700 and yes for the pair. It seems the site defaulted to $CAD with no drop-down menu to toggle currency options.

A less-expensive option if you can do your own welding is to chop off the LCA pivots on the frame and weld in the JD Fabrication kit: https://jdfabrication.com/collectio...ts/copy-of-4th-gen-4runner-lower-arm-pivots-1



Three guys in my off-road club run this kit.

 

My alignment on a slightly lifted 4R had terrible caster- each truck is a bit different. I went with JBA's and now I am near 4 degrees easily. The problem is as others have stated- I get rub with stock size tires and offset wheels. Not being able to run front mudflaps for most of my driving makes for some messy body panels.

 

Bro that's horrible. I think you'd be better off with stock arms, lower caster and mud flaps! I've read before about the trucks all being different but I respectfully challenge that idea. These aren't hand built vehicles in Italy where that could be said, they're produced on the most advanced of assembly lines, with robotically welded frames and laser precision car after car after car. If the same quality lift is installed by quality techs and aligned on good calibrated equipment the results should all be the same. That's how large scale installers like Westcott do it and never have to use UCA's. I thinks it's all the variables that make for so many different outcomes, lift components and their own discrepancies, installers, alignments, and alignment equipment. Just MHO.

 

I used Dobs billets and got perfect alignment on a 2.5” lift. If that helps.

 

I agree. Toyota isn't the one building these with a ton of variability. They have certain specs and tolerances that each part must meet or its unusable for them.

It's all the other add-ons that we do.......lift height, cam positioning, UCAs, alignments, alignment equipment, tire dimensions, and wheel dimensions that muddy the waters.

For example, the Tinkerer points out that just having more or less rake will change your caster measurements. Think of all the variations in rake each individual on here has and how that will affect their outcomes.