KDSS versus upgrading the suspension of a non-KDSS stock 4Runner? Who performs better on road?

Which 4Runners would perform best on road out of the four in order? By 'best' I mean which would have the least body roll, better cornering, etc.

1. KDSS 4Runner stock
2. KDSS 4Runner with upgraded suspension (let's say Icon Stage 7)
3. non-KDSS 4Runner stock
4. non-KDSS 4Runner with upgraded suspension(let's say Icon Stage 7)

I'm thinking the correct order might be 4, 1, 2/3? Is this the correct order? I'm thinking if you're spending $7000+ on a suspension, it should perform better on road than a $1700 option (KDSS)? Is this assumption correct? I placed 2/3 last as for 2. I believe KDSS with lift/upgraded suspension can cause issues to the KDSS system and 3. obviously would be the stock suspension performing the 'worst' out of the 4.

I wish someone like Donut did a test comparing the 4.

 

“On road suspension” isn’t in my vocabulary but I’d venture to guess, KDSS with upgraded shocks would be the best.

Icon would not be an option, why the lift? It would kill on road performance and reservoirs won’t help at all. Maybe an OE Bilstein is more suitable.

Just my .02

Good Luck
Mike

 

Just curious why buy a 4Runner thinking about better cornering? Should a 4Runner be something comfy on road and especially on rough / gravel roads?

I can only say the best handling would be KDSS with firm suspension (ex OME nitro sports from the ones I've tried) and the worst handling would be Non-KDSS with stock suspension.

If you buy dual adjustable shocks you can dial in the way you want it to be.

Edit-
There are KDSS bypass units where you can free KDSS swaybar and let the suspension fully do its shock absorbing qualities when you need a comfy ride on gravel/ rough roads. No personal experience with this by pass units as my budd doesn't have on his KDSS 4Runner. Hopefully I will drive it on Saturday 21st and refresh my experience with it

 

if body lean/roll is the subject you’re keying on then the mechanical advantage of KDSS sway bars has to be accounted for. of course you can tune lean out with stiffer springs or firm shocks by which you then sacrifice other ride characteristics.

 

I’d say Limited.

 

Good question for sure !

I think you'd be surprised the answer may be KDSS equipped 4Runner, AND, a lift under 3" ie: upgraded suspension.
I run Bilstein shocks all 4 corners, front OME lift springs, and rear ICON coils on my KDSS 2016 Trail
+ Dr. KDSS disengage module w/ dash switch, that's the kicker.

Watching Thread

 

I agree. 4runner feels super floaty when I am on lot of curvy roads. I have the non-KDSS and I feel every single turn, so does my dog in the trunk. I feel like i have to slow down so she doesn't feel queasy in the back (it could just be me though, dog didn't say that ).
I plan to upgrade suspension in the future knowing fully well that its not for cornering -- just to have a more stiffer feel and reduce sway side to side, and nose dive.
My other car, Y performance, is for cornering 4Runner is meant to go slow, and let everyone have a look at how beautiful it is.

 

Buy a car

 

If your preference is the best cornering and stability, I'd go with KDSS and a good aftermarket suspension, with minimal lift if any. The reason I say this is that KDSS does nothing for the front end nosedive and mushiness of the stock shocks. It only improves lateral stability.

Side note: I might avoid Icon due to a lot of leaking issues reported.

2/3 might be a toss up between a stock OR with KDSS and a non KDSS 4runner with a good aftermarket suspension.

And, last would be the stock, non KDSS option.

Someone above mentioned the limited, which has XREAS. This is supposed to improve overall stability, but I've never experienced it firsthand. The downside with XREAS is that once the shocks go, you have a very expensive replacement, or you need to ditch the system.

 

Are you planning to off road (or drive on rough dirt roads)? If not, then don't buy a 4R.

If you care about on road handling, specifically feeling stable / planted in turns, don't buy a 4R.

Or, buy one anyways, be unhappy, spend an ass-load of money in "fixes", and come back many times over the coming years wondering where you went wrong.

 

Non-KDDS. That system when it fails is very expensive and hard to fix if you can find a place to work on it.

 

I could be wrong,

• but IMO its not hard as per my local FB group I've seen couple of times KDSS cylinders replaced by the dealership relatively near me and owners are happy with the fix. I think its a dealership only repair as far as I've seen all KDSS repairs.

• As for the cost it seem to be not bad as the cylinder (the one that looks like a shockabsober) seem to same price as set of coilovers, $1500.

 

KDSS has been in Toyotas since 2004. Given nearly 20 years of production of millions of vehicles, failures are very rare.

 

KDSS + aftermarket suspension would be my vote, but it also depends what tires/size you have.
The best on road handling I experienced was with KDSS/Dobinson's and 285/70 Cooper Evo MTs. #2 would be same suspension with stock Dunlop's, and #3 is what i have now, 285/70 BFG KO2s.
On a side note I have the Dr KDSS switch and when I turn it on the light on the dash goes off but I haven't felt anything different yet...

 

So does a stiffer suspension actually change the speed you can safely corner, or does it merely disguise the fact that you're about to roll over?

 

For on-road, the order would be 2-4-1-3. The reason being the 4Runner handles like a boat on stock suspension with a lot of brake dive and body roll compared to even other Toyota models like the 3rd gen Tacoma.

KDSS is basically an automatic sway bar disconnect. One of the mounts on each sway bar is on a hydraulic piston instead of mounted on the frame. When front and rear axles are leaning in opposite directions (off-road articulation), the piston is free and the sway bar is effectively not there. When front and rear axles are leaning in the same direction (cornering), the piston stiffens up and the sway bar comes into effect. When the piston stiffens up, the KDSS sway bar has a higher stiffness than the non-KDSS model's sway bar, so the KDSS model has slightly less body roll in corners.

 

When cornering on pavement, if you have stiff suspension, once you reach the limits of tire grip, the vehicle will slide outward, which is usually safer than leaning too far and rolling.

 

Good question.

 

For 2.5 years I drove a Venture without KDSS. Now I have a TRD ORP with KDSS. It is a world of positive on-road and off-road improvement in pitch, sway, and roll. I should have bought a 4R with it 2.5 years ago. For me there is no need to lift or change shocks. So, your #1 is my #1.

 

Kdss makes a huge difference for on road drivability. Gives you better off road articulation as well. Only drawback is the additional $, for that option

Kdss’ benefits are orthogonal to the benefits from after market lift kit.

get both.

 

Yes, the sway bar(s) are variable depending on speed. I’ve only had to get savage once to make an extremely important medical appointment for my wife 180miles away through the Sierras to the SF Bay Area . We were held up by road repairs multiple times in the mountains and my one hour cushion evaporated. I still had the Bridgestones on it and I tore up the edges, never felt like it would roll, it just stayed flat and we made the appointment.

 

THIS.

If you don't need off-road performance, you're looking at the wrong vehicle.

 

I'd venture a guess and say the latter.

 

A stiffer suspension will let you use more of the available grip of the tires, where a tippy, softer suspension might allow you to roll before reaching the tires' limit.

With the stiffer suspension, it's possible to still roll over before losing tire grip. Whether you slide vs roll depends on center of gravity and the stickiness of the rubber.

 

Where I feel the KDSS the most on mine is going to Lake Havasu on the Freeway 10 east, getting nearly to Palm Springs and a vicious cross wind kicks in, watching semi-trucks changing lanes unintentionally sometimes tipping over. The old KDSS senses the body roll and compensates nearly immediately and my pucker factor goes from “oh shit” to turn up the radio Van Halen is on!

 

Add deep-snow performance to the list. My 4Runner will probably live the rest of its useful life on pavement, but will need to climb over snow banks and charge through knee-deep unplowed streets on my way home from work.

 

The road manners between kdss and non is less noticable after a decent suspension setup. My suggestion always is to get a non kdss and put the money into the suspension

I have icon stage 7 billet and kdss along with the dr kdss improvements though. Its a pita to deal with sometimes but handles great loaded up on the highway and off road

 

Fair point. My Volvo XC70 wagon was actually quite good at that task too.