Front or Rear locker?

This guy doesn't mess around. I solute you sir.

 

Trade the rig you have now in, and get a off-road variant. Rear oem locker.

 

This. I highly doubt the OP will even need one. Great point.

I use mine every week. Most, dont even know they bought the rig with one, and will only get them into more trouble.

 

Can i ask, which one you went with, for the front??

 

for someone that goes out alone with no help from other trucks, front locker mite come in handy.

 

Agree, but it kinda makes sense in a way. Aside from the weight being in the front (which I think was previous argument), with the IFS I would say the front is probably the most likely end to lift a tire in the air where a locker would be beneficial. With the rear solid axle, it seems to have a bit more flex and ability to keep both tires on hard surfaces

 

Which trails have you done where ATRAC wasn’t enough? I moved to CO from WA a few months ago, and so far I’ve done Engineer pass, Webster pass, Bunce, T33, Middle st vrain and a few others. I only needed ATRAC a few times on all said trails and it pulled me through effortlessly each time. I’m sure there’s a lot worse trails out there, but the ones mentioned aren’t exactly easy either.

 

Rear first if you're just getting one. You can leave it engaged more often (like through a whole trail). Whereas a front locker will need to be engaged and disengaged with each obstacle. In any case, this is the proverbial slippery slope: labor will be expensive, so it would make sense to re-gear at the same time, but then you gotta open up the front diff too...

A-Trac doesn't work well on slippery or loose surfaces (snow, sand, mud) where you need both wheels on the axle spinning at full speed. On the newer ORs you can use MTS to adjust the slip ratio, but then the brakes are still more prone to overheating. I've found rear locker + MTS to be a good compromise in most situations.

 

yeah ATRAC is a big let down in the snow, which is the primary reason I’m putting an arb in the rear of my sr5.

 

I was taught differently. The rear locker should be engaged/disengaged per obstacle. The front locker should be used only in certain circumstances. For example, if the rear locker is engaged, and the front wheels are on a soft surface, and you must make a turn during or just after the obstacle, the front of the vehicle may tend to snowplow - i.e. be pushed in a straight line regardless of steering input. In this case you would engage the front locker to help pull the front end in the direction that the front wheels are pointing. Use of the front locker should be specifically avoided in situations where the only wheel that finds traction is on the front axle and now the entire weight of the vehicle is being pulled by one front axle.

 

Not as much as a winch, and definitely not as much as a random truck coming by to save you from your own bad decisions.

Ask me how I know this one…

 

I still think about the time some random guy pulled me out of the sand on Cape Hatteras in my 2wd Rodeo, running street tire pressure. We would've been there for a while, with a tiny shovel and piece of driftwood as recovery gear.

We got a well deserved lecture on driving in sand, but overall the guy was pretty cool about it.

 

An empty 4runner might be heavier in the front, but once you have any gear in the back, it gets 50/50 or rearward weight bias pretty quickly. And if you’re trying to get uphill (when the most traction is needed) I would think that the effective weight transfer to the rear axle would make a rear locker more useful.

 

I just got back from ATR, wheeling around Windrock park in a line with a 70 series LC, a couple 80 series, and a couple Tacomas, plus a GX470 with an ABS line busted, rendering it without ATRAC, just basic 4x4. The universal recommendation from those guys was that if you have ATRAC, skids and sliders were the easy start point. Rear lockers are very good, but ATRAC was sufficient and quite capable. Front lockers can get you into trouble just as often as they get you out of it. After a weekend keeping up with those guys, my plan is front torsen/rear locker or just torsens at both ends when I regear.

Snow or mud pits might change that plan for some, but I doubt most people would be better off with a front locker as opposed to a torsen/ATRAC, whereas a rear locker is a lot more stupid proof.

 

Whenever the topic of lockers vs ABS traction control comes up I always parrot that lockers tend to prevent wheel spin, while ABS traction control requires it. It follows necessarily that with the use of ABS traction control comes the loss of momentum. While I believe that increasing momentum is rarely the best solution for overcoming a stubborn obstacle, I also think that the loss of momentum is unhelpful. I believe for each vehicle/obstacle combination there is a perfect speed that will allow the obstacle to be traversed most easily and smoothly. I think there’s a momentum sweet spot, that with experience a driver can gain intuition about it, that having and using that intuition feels almost magical and is very gratifying, and that the loss of momentum that abs-based traction control requires denies one of the opportunity to gain the intuition and feel the magic.

 

I've read some pretty concerning things on this thread, some of you should really get out there and gain some experience before giving others advice...

I have a front and rear locker and the rear is the one I use most. It is far stronger and safer compared to the front. It can be used in a lot more situations whether it is needed or not to try and just push you through an obstacle.

The front does add a little more capability as it will pull you up and over obstacles however it does have a pretty big risk of breaking things and really should only be used as a last resort to get yourself unstuck. Operating it at any time with the front wheels turned increases the risk that you will break something. Anytime I use my front locker I can feel the added strain it puts on my front end and even steering components. Despite this however, I always recommend using stock or even weaker CV axles when running a locker up front. This sounds backwards, but CV axles are way cheaper and easier to replace than a differential, locker, or transfer case. I don't mind having to replace them every once in awhile since most have a lifetime warranty and won't cost me $2000+ to replace.

Atrac is nice and all but it is not a perfect system. It can be particular when it wants to work and overheat and shut off when it wants. Its also another electrical system which we all know doesn't take much to start failing. Add in how easy it is to damage an ABS sensor or wire which the system relies on and its not the best thing to rely on as a recovery tool IMO. It also just doesn't have the same capability as a locker, which is why Toyota still offers lockers as well.

In summary I'd recommend the rear locker. Its safer and more reliable to run one in the back and the rear diff is stronger to begin with. The front is usually only good for getting me out of situations I probably shouldn't have been in to begin with. If you can get both do that, if not go rear.

 

So this “randomly” showed up in my YouTube feed today…

 

That was interesting. It was clear from his narration that he'd been through the obstacles a few times, so I wonder what choices he would make on the first pass through each.

 

I’d like to get a Toyota Bundy for my rear locker. Australia gets all the cool stuff!

 

The easy answer is no choice at all, lock both axles! It was very educational to hear him explain the pivoting that was happening with rear locker only on a steep up hill with one rear tire in a hole. Front and rear for the win.

Even though you “don’t need” a locker/s to get through stuff, it can make for a more stable and gentler way of getting through a situation. You just have to know the situations in which it can get you into trouble…like the pivot action demonstrated in the video. Doing it blindly could get you rolled over in a jiffy!

 

That's the thing. You have to appreciate the experience that goes into understanding the situations developing the judgement. I'm glad to pick up some ideas from comparisons in a handful of situations, but it still leaves me a long way from being able to approach it like him.

 

They also get freakish levels of dangerous spiders, rodent infestations, and venomous creatures!

 

That was a good video, but it’s important to note the first few obstacles he couldn’t get up with open diffs - he flat out said he wasn’t going to use driving techniques because it would be cheating. The last obstacle was the only one that needed lockers (there was no ATRAC to compare it’s ability too), the rest would have been a problem unlocked had he used a little bit of effort and some driving skill.

 

And to muddy the waters further, here’s another video from down under…

 

His comment stuck out to me as well. I'd like to see how he would do the obstacles with driving techniques.

 

The Australians I’ve talked to apparently look at us in awe that we live among tornadoes that can swallow cities.

True…. While our bravery is awe inspiring, it doesn’t help in a face off with a bird that wants to rip your entrails out.

 

This is the advice I was looking for. Thanks