2023 4Runner Off Road Premium: offset rub and mpg/handling

Hi all. Nine month lurker here and first time poster. I'm an ex-Jeep Grand Cherokee owner that had very minimal mods (suspension & tires/wheels) that came with my vehicle.

I've been reading and reading about the never ending wheel backspace/offset/rub questions that everyone one seems to have I feel I have an okay grasp on it, but being new to this hobby (meaning I'm learning and doing it myself now) I am finding that I'm missing a couple of answers I can't seem to easily find. I'm hoping a pro can pipe up easily enough or point me into the proper learning/reading directions.

I have a 2023 4Runner Off Road Premium.

I have those seven spoke OEM wheels (I don't like the look of them personally): https://trail4runner.com/2021/02/05/factory-5th-gen-4runner-wheel-options/

The OEM wheels have a BS of 4.5" and an offset of +15mm (if the information is accurate). I'm still on the stock Bridgestone Dueller HTs.

My goal is better tires & wheels for what I do. Purpose built not getting lured into the big expensive stuff, as pretty as it is. On my Jeep I was running KO2's. My primary offroading is fire roads and snow on the 395 up near Bishop/Mammoth (I have a home up there in the mountains so I frequent it quite a lot). I do not do any rock crawling.

My planned goal is to stay 265/70r17 (I'd like to keep my MPG as high as possible). This time around I think I will try out the Toyo Open Country A/T III (I'm still undecided between P metric and LT, but that is an endless debate).

My two wheels I'm leaning towards are the:

SCS F5's: https://www.stealthcustomseries.com/products/f5 or the
RRW's RS2-S 17X8.5 Monoforged Wheel's: https://www.relationsracewheels.com...yota-tundra-2021-older?variant=40404552712274

I'm looking to go as light as logically possible on my tire/wheel setup (up to a financial point. Volks look nice, but too far out of my budget for the first mods).

So there are my variables. Here are my questions I'm struggling finding answers to.

1. The infamous will I have rub question. Will I? I feel that most posts I read are individuals bumping up their 4runners to 285s (or higher) on the tires. I'm probably staying at 265. When I read some of the data points here https://trail4runner.com/2018/01/03/largest-tire-size-4runner/ it reads as if I should not have rubbing with either of my wheels I'm leaning towards. The F5 is a -10 offset, and the RRW are 0, -6, or -12 offset (I'm not sure about the -12 and rub though).
2. My goal is not to modify the suspension currently, so again, I hope staying 265 makes that so.
3. One area that threw me is leveling. I understand what it is, but again I see this mostly brought up with 285s or higher. Is this something I need to consider with 265s and my tire/wheelset I'm looking to purchase.
4. And last one for now. Assuming I have no rub at the -10 offset (for pure example) I understand it will stick out a smidge more than my current setup, will that impact my MPG. This was something I wasn't finding. Will a wider tire stance (because that is what it is, correct) have a negative impact on MPG?

I did use in part of my learning process.

Thanks for putting up with my short novel and thanks for any guidance you can provide.

 

IMO the factory TRD PRO wheels are the way to go for your application. I think an 8.5" wide wheel is wider than necessary for a 265/75. The PRO wheels are 7.0 wide with a different offset to stick out a bit more. For mpg, the biggest variables are the weight of the wheel and tire you choose, as well as the tread pattern.

Additional rotational weight will negatively effect performance including mpg, acceleration, braking, mpg. Tread pattern can add rolling resistance that will effect mpg.

For a tire I think a mild AT that is 3peak snow rated would be a good choice. Something like a Continental Terrain Contact AT, or General Grabber APT. I have the same use case as you and went with General Grabber ATX, but n retrospect something like the APT or Conti would have been sufficient. I went with SL, and I have no regrets. I wouldn't not get a C load in the future, but I'd avoid E load.

 

Well poop. I hadn't realized (read) that an 8.5" wide wheel might not be smart for a 265/70 (more research to do there I guess). And I did just learn about rotational weight and sprung/unsprung weight last week. Was really neat learning about that.

Hence my logic was to offset the heavier tires with lighter wheels so the mpg impact wouldn't be too terrible.

Thanks for the pointers on new tires. I'll add them to the research pile. My KO2s on the Jeep were LTs and honestly I never felt I really leveraged them for what they are designed for. I think I could easily run P Metric. (Again, a whole other topic)

I'm just afraid of slipping into analysis paralysis with the whole tire/wheel thing. I'd like to steer away from the TRD Pro Wheels (if logical/reasonable).

 

You'll have some rubbing with a negative offset, even with stock size tires. You might clear at 0 offset, or you might need a little plastic trimming and/or a fender liner mod.

With mild off-roading, you can probably stick to an SL load range and save some fuel. Or, go LT/C for a good compromise of durability and good road manners.

You don't need a lift to clear tires. Lift doesn't clear tires on IFS, it only hides the rubbing. Leveling usually refers to only lifting the front to get rid of the factory rake. I recommend keeping some rake so you don't end up nose high when towing or hauling.

I don't think having a slightly wider stance is going to affect your fuel economy measurably.

Like @Trail Runnah mentioned, a 3 peak mountain snowflake tire is a good idea. Fortunately, the Toyo AT3's are 3PMSF tires, so you're good there!

 

The Toyo AT3 (265/70/17) is rated for up to a 9" wide wheel, so you're fine at 8.5.

 

Thanks for that. Clearly I'm struggling to really grasp the whole offset bit. I'll go back to more reading. It also might be worthwhile for me to find a shop that does these installs for me and get verbally educated.

I appreciate the responses though. Good food for thought.

 

Have a look HERE for a discussion about offset and rubbing.

It’s widening the stance, whether by a change in wheel offset, or with spacers, or with wider tires, that causes the rubbing. Anything that moves the outboard edge of the tire further outboard of the hub flange will cause rubbing.

 

I never heard about leveling until I joined this forum. Is it only for looks or is there some practical benefit?

 

Only aesthetic. No real benefit.

 

Paralysis by analysis is real, I struggle with that often.

I should clarify, my thoughts on the 8.5 inch wheel with the 265 is only my opinion, I've always liked narrow wheels because they give the tires more of a sidewall bulge. (When I was a kid with a square body Chevy, I ran 35x12.50s on a 15x8) However, if you look at the specs, I think most 265s are rated to safely fit a 8.5 inch wheel. Once again, just my personal preference. I like skinny tires, and I'm always disappointed when I look at aftermarket wheels because most of them start at 8.5" wide.

 

That thread was a great read! Thanks for that.

 

And I feel like a fool. It just dawned on me where part of my error in the thought process was: my OEM tires are 7.5” wide. The wheels I was looking at are both 8.5” wide. It wasn’t even dawning on me that I gained an inch in wheel width from OEM to some of the after market wheels I was looking at.

Now the suggestion of the TRD Pros make more sense because they’re only 7” wide and +4mm offset.

Are there quality non Toyota wheels at the 17x7 or 17x7.5 range? Seems most the wheels I’ve been attracted to were all 17x8.5. I’m not against the TRD Pros if that’s the way I have to go, but was attempting to find mon Toyota flair for wheels

so many good lessons here.

 

8.5 inch width is totally fine, there are thousands of 4runners that run this set up on 265's. I personally run this with Toyo AT3's and it looks great. I do mild off roading similar to what you described.

 

Stayed up late last night doing more reading and trying to get a stronger understanding.

So now one possibility (or something similar) could be the Method 316s (at 17x8.5 with 0 offset). I really wanted a flat matte type color, but might not have a choice there: https://www.methodracewheels.com/products/316-matte-black?variant=31755721769021 (thanks for that insight @HighSierraGuy ).

Another wheel I had looked at a long time ago, but dropped off the list due to my misunderstanding the negative offsets, was the FN Wheels. Specifically the FN Konig Six Shooters. They are 17x8 at 0 offset. (And they have matte colors I like. Downside is that I could be waiting a while due to stock, but that's okay.

So, for the sake of learning, if I were to go the direction of a 17x8 wheel at 0 offset, I have even less of a chance of rub because I just removed a .5 inch of width? Is that logic correct? The back space is the same for the Konigs and the OEMs at 4.5"

 

Not exactly. You don’t hear many reports of 4Runners with rims rubbing against the spindle because the aftermarket wheels have too big a backspace. What you hear about is the outboard edge of the tires rubbing against the front edge of the wheel well or the mud flap. Regardless of the width of the rim, the tire is still 10½ inches wide.

When Toyota puts the TRD Pro wheels on at the port with an offset that is smaller than the ORP wheels by just 0.43 inches, they cut the fender. So if they’re cutting the fender for a -11mm change in offset, don’t you think you’ll have to cut it for a -15mm change?

 

You are making this hard on yourself lol

 

wheel aesthetic is something that you have to live with for a while.

consider making an aesthetic choice and then doing fitment R&D for what you want.

 

I’ve always been a fan of the rock warrior wheels. I think they have the best OE aesthetic.

 

rock warrior wheels are sleeper wheels. great looks and build. worth a lot of money these days.

 

A little update (because maybe some day someone else will need to run a search on something similar)

I think I've narrowed my wheels down to three:

• 17″ Konig Six Shooter (17x8/0 Offset/4.5"BS) - this are my current #1s
  
• Method 704s (17x8.5/0 Offset/4.75"BS)
• Method 316s (17x8.5/0 Offset/4.75"BS)

It turns out I'm less than 50 miles from Konig HQ and a quick email (and response) let me know that I can drive there and lean some of the wheels up against my 4Runner to make sure I like the color/look

I'm still reading (and re-reading) on offset. I know I'll have a little more of a poke with 17x8 (and 17x8.5) versus the OEM 17x7.5, but I think I can live with that And the rubbing should be minimal (if any) and pretty easily solved.

If I pull the trigger on the Konigs I'll do pictures so future folk have reference.