2023 TRD PRO: $15,000 "Market Adjustment" over MSRP

Hey washing down a $20 (cold) hotdog with a $25 (warm) beer seems cheap after dropping $3000 on the two concert tickets.

 

The way things are going......soon the average cost of the average new vehicle, coupled with the new higher interest rates, along with higher insurance cost, will simply be beyond what the average new car buyer can afford. 7-10 year financing - if it still exists today - is an early sign of things to come.
My gut tells me there will be more than a few of us that bought new 4R's in the last 2-3 years that will be glad that we did.

 

One of the biggest contributors to the current msrp is manufacturers subsidizing their EV production with gas vehicles. Yet anyone besides Tesla can hardly sell them. And Tesla prices have tanked this year. Considering that and the current heavy downtrend in the car market coupled with high interest rates I wouldn’t be surprised if manufacturers actually lowered msrp in the near future. At the very least buyers will have much better negotiating power.

 

Hmmm, the Rav4 prime, plug in electric seems to be doing just fine, I’d you don’t mind waiting because the demand is so crazy.
https://rav4hub.com/7-reasons-why-the-toyota-rav4-prime-is-so-expensive/

 

No. The dealer's sales manager would buy the vehicle and drive it for 2000 miles, then resell it at the same $75k. No MSRP controls on "used" inventory.

Toyota's average transaction price in 2022 was $50k. This was across all models from Corollas to Sequoias. Toyota seems to have brought the MSRP closer to the actual selling price.

 

Well when the government prints money like there are no consequences this is what happens. It’s called inflation. And no it’s not The war in the Ukraine fault. It’s down to bad leadership that does not have to suffer the same as the average person does.

 

When I was shopping for my car, I carefully considered the Pro vs the Off Road Premium and came to the conclusion that unless you absolutely *need* the extras, its definitely not worth paying the $11k premium over the MSRP of a well equipped ORP. In my case, I got a $5k discount on my ORP, which makes it a gem. But $57k or worse, $73k? Ooff, no.

 

I agree the EV market is garbage and that adds to my point manufacturers are using ICE and hybrid vehicles to subsidize EV development and sales which is making msrp go higher.

and I also agree that manufacturers will most likely use strong incentives instead of lowering msrp which is effectively the same thing, lower prices for buyers.

 

C'mon-- complete anti-climate change hogwash to say EV subsidization is causing increased new car pricing. THE major driver is manufacturers exploiting the demand (exacerbated by the pandemic) that people were OK spending more on cars (just like real estate, boats, etc, etc), and transitioning production to higher-margin cars, SUV's etc, i.e., more expensive new cars. Why waste production lines with low-margin small sedans when you make higher margins on other cars? We've seen the reports there is literally like one sub-$20K new car left in the US. This trend has stuck as suckers kept on buying these more-expensive cars. Problem is, most of these suckers are way over their head buying cars they can't afford-- taking 8 year car loans which guarantee they will be upside. This demand for ever-increasing expensive cars was primarily fueled by credit, and more specifically, easy credit over the last decade. Same with real estate. Any coincidence auto loan deliquencies are the highest today than even before 2008? Even the WSJ (who now readily discusses climate change as fact, btw) is reporting on this. https://www.wsj.com/personal-finance/car-prices-might-be-unsustainable-for-buyers-18d7b395 and btw, these carmakers who supposedly are using ICE sales to subsidize EV dev? c'mon, they received literally billions in subsidies from the federal govt to support EV development.

2 Types buying more-expensive cars today: (1) actual wealthy people paying cash from large gains from their stock portfolios; and (2) everyone else using credit and most of whom can't actually afford it.

 

I wasn’t talking about government subsidies. Toyota will spend 35 billion on EV development between 2022-2030 their government subsidies will be nowhere near that. Internal combustion car sales are helping subsidize that development.

 

Btw, i wasn't calling you out specifically but the various posts in this thread on this subject. and the conclusion I was disputing, was the not about subsidization per se, but that EV R&D costs are the reason why auto makers have jacked up new car pricing today. Not saying that may not be a factor in overall cost/resource allocation relative to margins but it is not the boogeyman some may make it out to be. And btw, cost/resource allocation relative to margins doesn't simply mean ICE vs EV. There are different territories/markets, business units, etc, etc, which go in that analysis.

 

Nice. as if all the previous post trashing anything EV (including yours) and concluding EVs are the cause for everyone's frustration with higher pricing is not infused with political tenor. c'mon. it's only political when the other side calls it out?

 

dealer tried to sell me nitrogen air in tires, I walked. called me the next day and removed the nitrogen air fee . I told him no thanks. I waited almost a year to get a 4runner because I refuse to buy a truck from unscrupulous dealers. can't believe they are still doing this crap. I paid sticker for my 4runner.

 

I’m not saying it is the only reason just one of a large puzzle of which most of the negatives are being dropped on the consumer.

 

I got you. My point is it's still a leap to go from this "ICE sales are subsidizing EV. That's the way business does it - use existing products to subsidize the R&D for new products" to EV R&D is causing higher new car prices. Companies obviously use profit from existing sales of existing prods to fund new R&D (although to say it's "subsidization" is not typical and has certain connotations), but that doesn't mean companies can simply raise prices on those existing sales. Just doesn't happen that way- especially in the super-competitive auto industry with historically low margins. Companies can raise prices on commodities if there's low supply/high demand or if there's price fixing. At the end of the day, I think automakers were ultimately relieved with the supply shortages as it allowed them to maintain its transition to high-margin, expensive cars-- keeping this status quo going at least in the US.

 

I put deposit on it

 

My tires came with 78% Nitrogen for free.

 

I think your assumption is probably accurate.

 

Obviously current profits subsidize new ventures. With the margins for manufacturers being very low raising prices will help that process. The amount of change for automakers in the move to EV is unprecedented.

 

only a grand for tint, wow, what a deal.

 

The current CAFE rules will likely force manufacturers to make more EV's as the years go by. Slowly taking away "choice" from the potential customer.

 

Mine, too. No charge

 

Right. Huge structural change for the industry. A lot banking on it, for sure. To clarify tho, the issue isn't as much about manufacturers raising MSRPs (which happens but could argue more about inflation) as it is about slowly siphoning off inexpensive cars and leaving higher-margin expensive ones, resulting in higher average MSRP of available cars across the market. The people who used to buy $25K Honda Accords are now buying $60K SUVs, regardless of actual financial ability/prudence thanks to easy credit. With new-car interest rates at around 10% and used rates higher, we'll see if there's a reckoning coming for automakers who may need to be weened off selling high-margin expensive cars.

 

Yes agreed, I’m really curious to see what incentives manufacturers and dealers offer when the reckoning of all this madness hits. I’ve already seen some dodge and jeep dealers offering up to 15k off msrp lol. I doubt it would ever get to that point for Toyota because they sell cars no matter what really. One can hope though lol.

 

cosco has free nitrogen air.

 

Hope for pricing ease would probably not coming anytime soon due to Toyota halted all Japan production plants... Future 5Gen owners get ready to pay more.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/toyota-halts-operations-12-japan-011435605.html

 

Lol. I just got a fully loaded black TRD Premium with $1,700 KDSS for $48,500. It has blackened option too.

 

Do you mind saying where? If you don't want to name a dealer, how 'bout a state?

 

I saw one in Alabama for 48k and I thought that was reasonable I guess