The transfer case is dead! Long live the transfer case!!!!

I'm not sure that's correct.

I was under the impression that GL-5 ate bronze parts because it has more sulphur/phosphorus.

I think you want GL-4 in our transfer cases because it's compatible with yellow metals.

***Disclaimer: I'm no expert on the matter and reserve the right to be wrong***

 

Just because:

 

I think he only references the synchros in the manual transmission and says it’s fine to use the 75-90 in the diffs and transfer case and holds up a squeeze bag of amsoil severe gear.

 

Frankly, I was surprised that Car Care Nut didn’t mention that the transfer case, does in fact have a synchromesh ring. And surprised he recommended gl-5…what he doesnt recommend for manual transmissions (because of synchromesh ring damage)

But, to be fair, previous to the current Toyota recommendation of Liquid Gold, Toyota recommended the regular gear oil you would otherwise use in differentials. Why toyota no longer recommends regular gear oil is unknown.

That mystery is why there’s even a debate about what to use.

 

It was not good to blame Royal Purple oil for that.

 

For my transfer case failure? I don’t think anybody blamed RP for it. But of course it’s a possible suspect…mostly on the grounds that it’s not the Toyota recommended oil.

Once I get some time, I’d like to open up the transfer case and look. I fully expect to find a busted synchromesh ring, because the little key that fell out is meant to limit how much the ring rotates. I think the only way for that retainment key to fall out is if the synchro ring is not there to hold it…or the steel gear that sandwiches it.

If that’s what I find, then maybe that casts more suspicion on the oil I used, but even then…maybe not prove it to be the cause.

It’s just weird though…I wouldn’t expect an oil that is safe for synchros would destroy specifically this synchro. But I’m just spitballing here since I havent seen the insides yet.

 

@McSpazatron - forgive me if this is already been asked or talked about... Have you searched through service bulletins?

 

Hi nimby. Where did you get that impression, if I may ask? I find it hard to believe that any oil formulation wouldn’t play well with bronze. There have been bronze bushings since the time of the Titans,

 

I don’t have access to search TSBs directly, but I didn’t see anything come up in general searches.

 

This is such an interesting thread that I had to re-read it from the beginning and only then did it occur to me that from the get go you tried to deflect blame away from yourself and onto the car and now you’ve stirred up this whole debate about transfer case oil and made us all insecure and paranoid about which transfer case oil to use or whether exercising our four wheel drive on pavement even for a second is okay and now I’ve come to wonder whether those ancient katana sword smiths actually weren’t inspired by the gods as legend says and if that legend doesn’t measure up then doesn’t that cast a shadow of doubt over all the other legends surrounding out mighty (?) vehicles? And as the line between real and unreal becomes blurred and and dark clouds move in to obscure the firmament above what is left for me to do but ball my fists, shut my eyes tightly, shake my head back and forth —— and then I open my eyes, and, now swaddled in the warm reassurring blanket of denial the answer comes to me:

Gee Spaz, to have broken your transfer case like that you must really suck at off-road driving.

 

My friend, fret not and take heart! The ancient imperial dynasty from whence the mighty samurai comes, has spent the eons preparing to build the 4runner. Even the mighty Fjs and Land Cruiser Troopies they get in australia were but practice runs for the manufacture of the 4runner…which is and will be the perfect expression of vehicular…expression. Do you think it possibly could fail all on it’s own?

Of course not. On the other hand, the likelihood that me sucking horribly at off roading was the cause, is infinitely more…likely.

Unless that transfer case is sourced from outside Japan….hmmm

 

Aisin/Advics has been their transmission and caliper maker for ages. I'm presuming they make the transfer case and differentials as well.

They introduced their generic transmission fluid in the states recently.

In addition to filing with the NHTSA, it wouldn't hurt to maybe call a service advisor and ask if there are any service bulletins about that problem. You know, secret warranty stuff that needs to be addressed if the customer complains, but not publicized otherwise. Who knows... In cases where you've already taken the remedy, they might throw a few bucks at you. This is not unheard of and I have had that done for me a couple of times in the past. It's never been thousands of dollars but it's been many hundreds...

PS
By the way, nobody "knew" about the 4Runner shudder until I called the service advisor that I'm on really good terms with. He's a Tacoma owner and well versed on lots of issues with the 4Runner and Tacos. He says it's a really common complaint and that Toyota has documented it on some service bulletins.

 

I apologize for my earlier misleading/inaccurate post. I just rewatched the video and I was half right and half wrong!

The GL rating is important for the manual transmission NOT the transfer case.

GL5 used in front/rear differential CAN be used in the transfer case.

Fluid weight can be different than owners manual, only slightly affecting fuel economy.

 

That was my understanding of the video as well. But did you catch why you can’t use GL5 in manual gearboxes? It’s because the GL5 chemistry attacks the synchros, which are made from soft yellow metals.

So then, why is it ok to use GL5 in the transfer case, when it also has a synchro that could be attacked by that chemistry? That’s what confused me about his, and everybody’s recommendation. Even dealers are using GL5. Why?

Now that I think of it, maybe toyota was starting to see problems as gl-4 became less available over the years…and maybe that’s why they changed the recommendation to the Toyota liquid gold???

Again, whether or not my use of Royal Purple caused my presumed synchro failure I don’t know. But it does *not* seem to make sense when it’s specifically formulated to be safe for yellow metals.

While I cant see the mechanism of how RP could cause that kind of failure, I’ll just pay the man his money for the liquid gold from now on. But what I know/don’t know about my failure at this point in time isn’t enough to cast any doubt on anybody else’s logical reasons for using the usual gl-5 (or something like redline mt IV that says it’s a toyota equivalent for transfer cases).

 

The video and the owners manual is the extent of my knowledge. Beyond that, I would be purely speculating.

I can say from experience that I ran GL5 in the transfer case on my previous 97’ Tacoma for over 20 years and nearly 300k miles with no problems.

I have to agree with the others that you probably just experienced a fluke gearbox failure.

 

The real problem is that the purple oil clashes with the paint job! White and Barcelona red, no problem. Just no MGM or black!

As for soft metals in the transmission, here's my take on it... The soft metals in a standard transmission are more forgiving whereas the modern transmission and differential has more computer power behind it and doesn't have to be as forgiving. How about that for a theory?

In most time zones this Saturday afternoon, there's bound to be a service advisor who knows the part-time four-wheel drive well enough to maybe give some insight.

PS block your caller ID when you're calling around and use Skype if you call any toll free numbers.

 

When (if) you open trans case, you may see either: wear out of synchro from wrong lubricant, or breakage from wrong shifting. Post a pictures, as you started this brouhaha, finalize it, be a mensch.

 

I think it's been covered by now but there's always a lot of debate over GL4 vs GL5. This is from Rymax Lubricants on the difference:

https://www.rymax-lubricants.com/updates/the-differences-between-gl-4-and-gl-5/#:~:text=Sulphur/Phosphorus additives however have,unless the manufacturer allows this.

And this was my main takeaway:

Sulphur/Phosphorus additive have an unfavourable property: they can react aggressively towards bronze and copper. This can be disastrous for the synchromesh rings of a gearbox. Therefore it is not recommended to use GL-5 in a gearbox unless the manufacturer allows this.

This is the debate from Bob is the Oil Guy:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/gl-4-or-gl-5-in-4runner-transfer-case.260391/

I just wish we knew whether Toyota's liquid gold is a GL4 or a GL5?? That would make everything way easier.

 

The MSDS sheet could speak volumes. Those sheets were where I discovered Mobile made their USA-distributed oil, that their ATF was not "exactly like" Idemetsu and their coolant was nothing like any of the more expensive off-brand "compatibles," etc.

https://toyota.jp/pages/contents/after_service/car_care/yohin/sds/pdf/Gear_oil/08885-02706.pdf


I'm not able to do the deep dive right now, but maybe somebody out there could.

I'm using voice recognition to write this as I'm actually preparing for hurricane/tropical storm at Hillary to hit in the next day, moving outdoor furniture, gardening equipment, sweeping and clearing drainage grates. It's been something like 80+ years since an actual tropical storm has directly hit Southern California. Of course, doofus that I am, I didn't fill my 4Runner tank last night so I got something like a half a tank.

 

It’s a reasonable guess. The other possibility is that the grape flavor extract in Royal Purple just gummed up the works.

 

The grape flavor encourages more frequent fluid changes! We learned it with toothpaste...

 

Wifey is Japanese. She just ran the MSDS in MS Word

boiling point / range: > 316℃ (600°F) [Predicted value]
Vapor density (air = 1): > 2 ＠101 kPa [Predicted value]
vapor pressure: < 0.013 kPa (0.1 mm Hg) @ 20℃ [Predicted value]
Evaporation rate (N-Butyl acetate = 1): no data
pH: Not applicable
Log Pow (n-Octanol/Water distribution coefficient): > 3.5 [Predicted value]




Solubility in water: Negligible
viscosity: 29.5 cSt (29.5 mm2/sec) @ 40℃ | 5.7 cSt (5.7 mm2/sec) ＠ 100℃
Decomposition temperature: no data available
Oxidative properties: See the section on hazard summary.

Other information
freezing point: Melting point without data: Not applicable
Pour point: -33℃ (-27°F)
DMSO extract (mineral oil only), IP-346: < 3 % by weight

 

A big thank you to your wifey!

 

Probably the best way is to screenshot the pages and use Google Lens... It tries to emulate formatting, etc.

 

By the way, in reading up on all of this, I think that if I had to buy something today, I would get the Redline oil MT-LV.

It's very close to the viscosity of Toyota 75W at +0.8 viscosity @ 100°C, with a much better pour point.

PS, it's GL-4.