Recovery Hooks/Points

Pintel hitches work great as well.

 

I think Captain Spalding has a key observation here. Those two members structurally link the front crossmember to the next cross member back so that the pair of them behave as a unit. It reduces the torque on the front radiator cross member that would otherwise be in effect due to the tow loops being located below the axis of the crossmember. My opinion is that the linked structure is actually very robust, even though I've never used them. (I also think people who remove those front-to-back linkages to fit a skid plate are making a mistake.)

 

A 3/16 or 1/4" skid plate would provide the same structure, especially if they are gusseted like the C4 version. I don't like the way other skids bolt the leading edge to the open box at the front of the front/back member, which is in turn bolted to the cross member. A hard hit can collapse the box.

 

I'm just gonna come out and say it - real men just roll down the window and hold the rope to get pulled out.

 

Been reading all of this stuff and trying to learn as this is my first foray into 4wd and offroad stuff ... am I correct in gathering there is no consensus on anything being an acceptable recovery point hahaha

 

My left arm has always been stronger, it's like I was built for this!

 

… in their teeth.

You are correct. Even for situations where there are actual facts to work with (as opposed to this issue which is rife with conjecture, imagination, and fantasy.

 

I just reviewed the Apex Overland install video and noticed that the skid plate could also help inhibit the bottom of the front member from being rotated forward.

 

My big takeaway from that video was that I sure could use a cordless impact wrench.

 

I could use one too. I have a nice pneumatic impact wrench that I use for lug nuts/tire rotations. But for small fry nuts and bolts it’s barely worth dragging out the compressor and the hose. And since I already have the pneumatic one I can’t bring myself to buy a cordless electric one. Too cheap.

For me the benefit of the video is the nice clear view of the undercarriage that it provides. Of course I have a 4Runner, and I could put it up on blocks and remove the plastic cover and the skid plate, and have an even clearer view. But nope. Too Lazy.

 

Yeah, it would also be nice to have that view from a standing position instead of on my back on a piece of cardboard. The RCI skid plate is tempting if only to simplify oil change.

 

Milwaukee 1/2 in impact wrench. It is a miracle of engineering. It will tear up any bolt you want to sheer clean off. Although I recommend a bit if penetrating oil to avoid that, since it gets expensive.

 

The trick is not to use cardboard. My best investment in shade tree mechanic…izing has been dense foam carpet padding. Next to rich corinthian leather, nothing is more comfortable to lay on while working under a 4runner. I’d even say it’s more comfortable than using a lift and craning your head to look up.

 

The stock skids mount there. If they crush, they are easily replaceable. And they might crush, because I would guess that crushing and bending is part of what they are there for.

 

It’s gotta be Dewalt for me I think. Its a battery standardization issue. I’m considering the DCF891.

Furniture blankets are great too.

Probably means nothing but: theres an area of the frame behind the radiator but in front of the sway bar attachment bolts that is corrugated and meant to crush. Recovery points that tie in to both the front cross member and the sway bar bolts, like the Apex Overland ones, would prevent crushing. I can see good and bad aspects to that.

 

I think the Alex Overland recovery plates are designed well. The key IMO is the 2 bolts that are vertically oriented in the bottom of the longitudinal frame members holding the sway bar. If you consider the tow strap pulling horizontally on the hook point, it will be along an offset line of action below the large frame members (ones sway bar is bolted to). That will want to rotate the recovery hook point (lowest point) upwards. The power steering bracket bolt will develop a resisting couple (vertical force) to prevent this rotation. So the thick plate between the hook point (lowest point) will develop tension which is transferred to the large frame member in a triangular truss type action. This will essentially protect the cross member from deforming by directing the load to the large frame members. The plate basically stiffens up the arrangement of the crossmember, the large longitudinal frame member and the vertical frame member ( power steering pump attachment), all in a triangular truss arrangement. Tying into the longitudinal frame member is the key. Having bolts in 2 different directions is smart: vertically and horizontally. Two perpendicular horizontal shear planes.

 

Captain Spalding and rmiked,
Curious about any thoughts either of you may have about the Treaty Oak recovery points? I have a '22 ORP with KDSS and would appreciate thoughts on the apex overland configuration for my rig as well.
Thanks

https://www.treatyoakoffroad.com/product/gx460-5th-gen-4runner-recovery-point.

https://www.apexoverland.com/shop/Apex-Front-Recovery-Points-for-KDSS-5th-Gen-4runner-p188568491

 

On the Treaty Oak page they list these caveats:

***not intended for use with soft shackles***
***NO SIDELOADING***
WLL: 10,000lbs, 2:1 safety factor per point
We recommend the use of a bridle while using this product.​

I consider these to be significant limitations. The dry weight of an empty 4Runner is 4750# - more with KDSS. Add fuel and my girth, and we’ve blown by 5000# and the 2:1 safety factor per point, necessitating a bridal.

On paper the Apex Overland recovery points look better, but while the non-KDSS version looks easy to install, the KDSS-compatible version requires removing the front bumper and crush bar and drilling the frame.

if I had to choose one it would be the Apex Overland, but I’m not convinced of the inadequacy of the factory loops. If you look at the tie downs on any other Toyota they look positively anemic next to the 4Runner’s. In spite of what the manual says, I can’t believe the 4Runners loops are just for pulling a short distance on flat level ground.

 

Thanks for your input.
I'm not concerned about the install of the Apex units.
I'm considering recovery points or perhaps a slimline bumper.
What, if any, recovery points or bumper are you running?
Thanks again.

 

What am I running? Nothing but determination and a salty attitude. But I like the look of these:

Ironman 4x4

But if you are considering a lo-pro bumper I’d do that. The recovery points are properly placed on the front of the bumper rather than under it.

 

Hey Cap,
Again, thanks for the info. Especially your thoughts on the so called "tie down loops".
Standing pat for now.
PS Ironman 4X4 no longer offers the recovery point you noted. Trail4runner did a write up on install of these and apparently the install was a pain. Ironman ceased availability after that???
Thanks

 

Burnt Taco, I watched an install video for the C4 Lo Pro. If I was wanting to replace the factory bumper, I agree with Captain, I would do that. Given the Ironman is no longer available, that option is gone. However, for me, not wanting to replace the bumper, I would get the Apex Overland. The functionality, ease of install, and design is hard to beat. I am not familiar with the additional complexity of the KDSS regarding installing the Apex recovery points.

 

Thanks for your response.
The Apex Overland KDSS unit requires pulling the bumper and doing some minor drilling of the frame in order to open up two holes. Their website has detailed instructions. Not too bad of a job. I'm curious about any thoughts you might have about the KDSS specific model. Right now I'm holding pat.

https://www.apexoverland.com/shop/Apex-Front-Recovery-Points-for-KDSS-5th-Gen-4runner-p188568491

 

I looked at the instructions for the KDSS version. Looks like the same number of bolts. They drill out the frame holes and install a nut plate on the back side to which the bolts attach vs using the existing threaded holes. It is just more complicated by needing to remove the bumper.

 

Yep.
Thanks

 

Regarding use of bridles, there is a lateral force created at the attachment point to the vehicle. It is larger when the length of the bridle is shorter. The “tie-down” loops on our 4 Runners look pretty good but I doubt they have significant lateral load resisting capability. When used alone (not a bridle configuration) they would fare better OR with a long bridle. Also the tow strap attachment to the bridle needs to be able to slide (along the bridle) to accommodate the tow vehicle and towed vehicle not being centered. The link below does a good job of describing the balance of forces in a bridle arrangement. I am also attaching a sample calculation showing a 5000 lb tow force, 30” distance between tow loops (my ORP), and a bridle length of 67” resulting in the attachment point of the tow strap to bridle being 30” away from line between tow loops. The lateral force on each tow loop (eyelet) is 1251 lbs. This assumes there is NO snatching (rare) and the bridle remains centered with tow vehicle. So you would get a compression load across the lower radiator support between the tow loops. Once the angle between the two bridle straps equals 120 degrees (angle in sketch =60) EACH bridle force Ft=5000 lbs, same as tow force. Then the lateral load (Fc) on EACH tow loop is 4330 lbs. The shorter the bridle the larger the lateral load.The Alex Overland recovery points used in a bridle configuration would transmit these lateral loads very well. Well enough to move the vehicle laterally to regain a centered arrangement IF things got out of parallel. Also, regardless of the lateral load imparted, the tires would slip on the ground laterally and move the vehicle before frame damage. When people are stuck, they can get desperate. It’s better to have thought about it in advance.
https://youtu.be/V13ARMYoAos

 

Excellent video and impressive calculations! I like how he organized the table into zones, although I wish he’d gone into more detail about how he arrived at the placement of the zone divisions.

Another weakness in all of this analysis is that we don’t know, even for the “rated” aftermarket recovery points, what the limit is for side loading. Without that information, calculating the side load, while impressive, doesn’t mean much. You have a number but no idea what it means. At least with the Apex recovery points we have fasteners working in two dimensions, so they would fare much better with side loading. But I have no reason to trust them more than the factory welded loops.

Those caveats aside, let’s go back to his table with the green, orange, and red zones. The bottom end of green zone is 20°, and the bottom end of the orange zone is 40°. So given the 30” spacing of the 4Runner’s recovery points, what’s the shortest bridle one can use and still remain in the green zone? In the orange zone?



So to stay within the green zone of the table, you’d need a bridle of the minimum length of 14.4 feet. To stay our of the red zone you’d need a bridle with a minimum length of 7.3 feet.

 

His Zones must assume some lateral load resisting capability. We don’t know what that is but the lower the load, the better. I would want to protect against ANY permanent bending of steel parts on my 4 Runner. You notice in his chart once the included angle in the bridle equals 120 degrees, each bridle force equal the tow force. I mentioned that in my response above, having calculated the half-angle (60 degrees) at which each bridle force = the tow force, I thought that was remarkable. The factory welded loops bending resistance (assuming the welds don’t fail) would be limited to the 1/2” diameter rods being bent ; 2 rods for each side. The Apex recovery point is a steel plate , looks to be 1/4” thickness minimum? Although it’s thicker (reinforced ) at the attachment point. I have not personally inspected one and taken measurements in hand, just pictures. You must postulate a line about which the plate would “yield” when bending, subjected to the lateral load. That line would be perpendicular to the direction of the attachment slot. Once you establish that line and its dimensions (looks to be at least 2” long, also need thickness) you could calculate the moment of inertia of that part of the plate. Similar calculations can be done for the round cross-section welded loops. You then could assume the same material properties and compare the lateral loads that would cause each arrangement to “yield”. Yielding is the point at which the steel stays bent as it is no longer elastic. Designers normally provide a factor of safety against yielding of 1.67 for structural steel. I agree the factory welded loops look stout and go thru the bottom bracket and are welded on both sides. The second set of welds are mainly for tension resistance and would not contribute much to the lateral load failure. That would be controlled by the cross section and material of the round steel rods from which the attachment loops are made. Even if you assume the factory welded loops can take the same load as the Apex plates, you still have to get that load into the vehicle frame without permanently bending anything. That’s where the Apex plates have the advantage. That plate bolted at those 4 points greatly stiffens up the lower radiator support and it’s ability to take both tension loads with straight away pulling, and any lateral loads from using a bridle (or single line pulling sideways without a bridle), without yielding it. At then end of the day, if you permanently bend (yield) something it will be obvious. It could get messy attempting to repair the lower radiator support. My reason to get the Apex recovery point is to avoid damaging the lower radiator support, not to prevent failing the welded loops. If I had the Apex recovery points I would use a bridle of at least 7’ and feel good that even with dynamic snatch loads I am not gonna damage the lower radiator support. I would assume dynamic snatch loads can be twice a steady state load. That subject gets complicated but I would never use just chains. I would want some length of non-steel material (cordura nylon, webbing material that strains easily compared to steel) in the load path. May as well be at the vehicle with a bridle. I don’t yet have a set of these Alex recovery points but after thinking about it responding to these posts I am gonna order a set. Again, Toyota has some stout welded loops on the front of our 4 Runners. I’m sure they recommend using them as tie-downs or emergency flat-ground towing to protect the lower radiator support and likely not fail the welded loops. Also, as others have commented, the longitudinal braces (pic attached) that some remove to install some skid plates, seems to me would stiffen up the lower radiator support. In addition they offer resistance to any skid plate when it contacts the ground, rocks, etc. Those braces act as interior supports to the skid plate when it is subjected to transverse loads. They reduce the unsupported span of the skid plate ( by about a factor of 3) thereby increasing its functional resistance, regardless of how thick the skid plate is. The deflection of a beam or plate is proportional to its length cubed (raised to the power of 3). If you reduce its span by a factor of 3, you reduce the deflection by a factor of 27. In the spirit of form follows function, I won’t be removing those braces. I took a screenshot of the Apex install. The plate thickness looks to match the diameter of the welded loops (1/2” thick).

 

Arb for the win:
ARB ARB735LB 3" x 16' Recovery Winch Tree Trunk Protector Saver Strap with 26500 lbs Capacity
https://www.amazon.com/ARB-ARB735LB-Tree-Saver-Strap/dp/B004P9C5QE

 

I just measured with a micrometer: 1/4" where it's a layer, 1/2" where it's two layers