Will installing a 1/2 inch front spacer be as bad as everyone says?

Whip, I'm not going to pick on you because you've been a good sport. But this post right here is a perfect example of refusing to think an argument through. You, like so many others when this topic comes up, are blinded by one single term and hang your hat on it. If you'd just taken a minute to think about the points I made early in the thread you'd have realize that "compressing the spring" and "raising the truck" were incompatible. I was just trying to get you to break out of that.

Sad thing is, this exact argument will happen again in a month and nobody will remember this thread.

On a side note, coilovers are used everywhere in all kinds of racing. I've got them on my super comp dragster and my street car. And in every format, that collar is called a height adjuster. Only in the 4Runner/trucking world is that thing referred to as a "preload" adjuster (and it's wrong).

 

A .5" spacer won't change much(other then rise height). If you decide to do a spacer lift, definitely get it aligned.

But eibach pro truck shocks or bilstein 5100 would be an excellent alternative(instead of spacers).

 

You’re still preloading the coil more than normal. That coil wants to push up against weight but the vehicle weight isn’t changing so you get lift. I ran it across some friends to confirm in case I was wrong. The manuals call it preload adjustment and King recommends not changing it because ride height can suffer.

 

You are raising the truck, AND compressing the spring

It does make sense

It's not just the 4runner world that calls them preload adjusters. Every other forum I'm a part of calls them that too. It doesn't matter what you call them, it's the same thing. Call it what you want, the mechanics behind them is the same.

Alright, I mentioned in my post above, that you are compressing the spring to raise the vehicle, because you are increasing the preload. Here it is if you don't want to scroll up:

None of the above comments are correct. You're not "extending" the shaft higher. The collar is moving on threads. The spring is in a fixed location on the bottom. You are either preloading or relieving tension on the coil to achieve the desired ride height. Have a read. If you don't want to read, I'll pick out the important parts:

https://trail4runner.com/2019/02/18/king-suspension-preload-adjustment/

 

What I'm saying is that you are adding more load to the coil before the vehicles wait is added to it, hence the term "preload". Once the vehicle is on the spring, it compresses to the exact same length that it would no matter how much "preload" you put on it.

 

You are compressing the spring at full droop only. At ride height, the spring ends up at the same length, regardless of "preload."

 

@SanJuan , are you looking at the top hat spacers that sit on top of the entire strut assembly? Or, the spring spacer type?

I wouldn't be concerned about ride quality, or capability with the top-,hat type. You're not really changing anything, except that you do run the risk of bottoming out the shock before hitting the bump stops. If you're only doing light wheeling, this shouldn't be an issue. If you're doing moderate to hardcore stuff, you would be better off getting a set of coilovers, or at least 5100's.

 

Again, wrong on all accounts. And lmao at the citation to that website. They're using the same incorrect terminology as you.

Simple question No. 1 - does the coil spring, and only the coil spring, set the ride height of the front? Yes or no?

Simple question No. 2 - does compressing a spring shorten that spring? Yes or no.

 

You obviously can't comprehend. It's ok though.

They are not wrong.

Compressing a spring shortens the overall length a spring. But it will keep you higher in the ride height for a given mass. Less sag. Bottom line. You don't obviously understand suspension. Dirtbikes, mountain bikes, vehicles, it's all the same concept. You know that preload collars on rear shocks for motorcycles and dirtbikes, if you compress them, keep you higher in the ride height, correct? It decreases the sag percentage.

Feel free to keep on disagreeing, but yeah, I'm done with this as well. It's really simple math.

 

No it doesn't.

I don't care what the 4runner world or every other forum calls it, it's not correct.

See above comment.

Just because something is on trail4runner.com doesn't necessarily make it the gospel truth. I've seen plenty on there that was just opinion. And wrong.

I said in my initial post that I have beat this drum for years, and finally gave up.

 

It's easy to see you don't understand the concept of springs, preload, sag, and the math that goes into how it all works. It's ok though!

 

https://youtu.be/rKUUmbhUrpg

How to adjust ride height by adding preload on Icons.

 

There is your basic problem. You think shortening the one thing that sets ride height actually raises the vehicle. You also don't understand the difference between top and bottom height adjusters and the design of the shock. But hey, keep on spreading bad info.

 

I don’t know how anyone can be so dense. Take a spring and sit it in front of you. Now sit an item on top of that spring. Now put a spacer between the spring and that item. The item (truck) is now higher and spring is the same. Spacer lifts and adjusting collars do just that.
A spacer put into a strut only compresses the spring at full extension of the strut. At ride height it makes zero difference. I can see how a very tall spacer on top would cause some ride issues with the A arms at crazy angles but it does NOT make the spring stiffer.

 

They must be wrong as well about their own suspension

Here's the exact time of the video: 1:48 where they explain the adjustment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKUUmbhUrpg&t=108s

 

In the video he is not compressing the spring. He is adjusting the upper half of the shock and therefore the truck upward. Extending the shock. The spring remains the same. Not stiffer. Not compressed. The same truck is still sitting on it.
Your travel becomes unbalanced as the shock is extended. He wants you to be sure you’re not adjusting so much that there will be too little at one end. He’s not talking about spring length.

 

As you add preload, the coil it pushes the vehicle up to get to its "happy length" but it gets stiffer because the vehicle weight has not changed. It's working harder to get to that length.

I'm sure OP has sold his Runner by now.

 

When you turn the adjuster, it raises the vehicle. It does not compress the spring any more than it would be if you set it to zero lift. You move the top of the spring down, which moves the bottom of the spring down. The spring does not get stiffer.

 

But it does and has been explained and 1st hand experience adjusting my Fox shocks. That's why people with max on their coilovers have a crap ride.

But even the Icon video I posted explains how adding preload raises the vehicle. Maybe it's not compressing per say but instead called preload. Not sure what else I can do besides post info from the manufacturer.

 

Comparing putting a spacer on top of your existing soft spring to swapping in stiffer springs is apples and oranges. You could put a 100’ tall spacer on the spring and it is still the same spring.
This the advantage of small spacers. Your retain stock ride and it’s cheap. If you get a little carried away with spacer size you will need a steering alignment. This may be what some think is making the spacer lifted vehicle ride worse.

 

You still don't get it. This is painful. Have you ever taken apart a coilover and replaced the actual strut?

You think that you're magically "extending" the shock...ie by turning the collar, more of the piston rod will be exposed out of the bottom of the shock body and the eye to eye length gets longer? Haha that's not how it works. The shock is at full extended length when the coil is installed onto the body. At that point if the collar is all the way backed off, the spring will just rattle around. Then that collar is turned until it comes in contact with the spring. Any more turns is going to compress the spring and add preload since the shock is at full extension and the spring sits on a fixed location at the bottom.

It's not like the the shock is installed with the internal piston "floating" midway in the body and there's room to move it each direction. There is a "max" eye to eye length that the shock has. It's built into the internals. What happens when you receive shocks that are compressed with a strap and you cut the strap? They fully extend. I'm not sure where people are getting this whole "the shock gets longer thing" beyond the max eye to eye length. THIS is the reason there are limits to the MAX amount of preload. It compresses the coil which can make the coils become too close together and bottom out, OR adding too much preload can cause more induced force to a shock system before it's even installed.

The vehicle will sit higher in the travel because there's more preload which means less sag. At this point, technically, there will be more piston rod exposed because you are sitting higher in the travel (ie less sag). But to achieve less sag, you are inducing preload to the coil so it doesn't allow the vehicle to sit as low in the travel.

There's a chance we're all saying the same thing here, just looking at the mechanics of it differently. I think I can see what y'all are saying that it "raises" the truck because the shock gets longer, but TECHNICALLY what's happening is the vehicle isn't sitting as LOW in the travel anymore because there's less sag. But you are still compressing the spring. You have a fixed perch on the bottom and an adjustable collar. Think of what it's doing off the truck.

 

Yes, adding so-called preload raises the vehicle. That is because it does not compress the spring at ride height. That is also why it does not make the spring stiffer.

People who max out their coilovers might have shitty ride quality because they are riding too close to the bottomed out position of their shocks, therefore limiting down travel.

 

The top mount get pushed up by the spring which is why it doesn't look compressed but you are adding preload or tension to it. I think you are expecting to visually the coil compress but it isn't going to happen since the vehicle's ride height changes.

You should remember from the Taco days that is was recommended to run taller Eibach coils on 5100s for lift instead of 5100s with OEM springs but the lower mount adjusted to add preload for lift because it rides like crap.

 

You get it but you don’t understand it. Sitting on a bench the shock will not extend beyond its max eye to eye but with the truck compressing it to ride height it will extend back toward it’s max. All you are doing is adjusting how much the shock is extended while at ride height. The spring don’t care. It’s the same spring at the same length under the same load.
Unless ride around nearly maxed out in shock length the should be no difference. Years ago my first lift of factory shocks with a 1” spacer still rode fine and had lots of brake dive.

 

Tinkerer had a video with graphs, numbers, and equations and shit showing that the “bad ride quality” with too much “preload” (nobody yell at me!) is not due to “stiffer spring rate”. It made sense to me at the time, even though I barely grasp some of the physics based explanations for this stuff.

I put everything in quotes above because some of the points in this discussion appear to ultimately come down to semantics. At the very least, the topic is moving towards the academic. At least for my old motorcycles over the years, preload was the term used when lowering the top collar. And when I adjusted the preload collar, the spring compressed because the adjustment was done on the bike with the coilover bound by the extension limit of the swing arm.

It’s interesting the tone of some of this discussion, but to be fair, I do think that the physics involved are not perfectly obvious.

 

I don't think the ride quality is affected because of the spring somehow becoming stiffer. It's not possible to make a spring stiffer unless you actually compress it.

I think the change in ride quality is due to the shock riding at a different position in its overall travel. Also, the more "preload" you add, the more tention the spring will be under at full droop.

Ride quality could also be affected because of the angles that the upper and lower control arms are riding at.

 

Maybe some are confused and equating spring spacers to top spacers. A spring spacer will slightly compress the spring on a fully extended shock and will cause the shock shaft to be more extended at ride height and compress the spring a bit more on bottom out. That could giver a “stiffer” sensation when you’re beating the truck.
A top spacer, like I assume the whole thread began with, will only lift the truck higher. The shock and spring travel remains as stock. Neither changes the spring one bit at ride height.

 

I've gone through the differences of top plate vs coil spacer with my first post but that's what started everything. I think people are thinking the coil would be shorter with more preload or that it would be 1:1.

That's why it's called preload. If you put a coil in a vise and start closing the jaws, the coil will compress down until there's coil bind. In suspension, the coil has one movable jaw (coil mount) so the added tension or preload is what pushes the vehicle weight higher because the coil wants to be happy at a certain length. Go too far and the coil cannot expand to where it wants to be.

Bypass shocks work in this way as the piston uncovers the bypass ports at certain heights.

 

Stupidest fucking thread in a long time. One guy wants to get it but doesn't understand. The other has no fucking clue how anything works and is a flat-earther. Holy shit what a waste of time. I keep wanting to back out but it's such a misinformed shitshow that I have to keep coming back to see the ever-increasingly whacky justifications.

I'm posting a link to this thread on my drag racing forum just for the entertainment factor.

 

Here’s an easy exercise for those with coil overs.
Measure your spring at ride height.
Unload your suspension so the shock maxes out.
Adjust the coil that length you measured.
Sit the truck back on the suspension and measure that spring again. I don’t have coil overs but I say the spring will stay the same length and the shock will stay maxed out.
The truck will be higher and the spring no stiffer.