4 Runner Crash Test Results-NHTSA

The NHTSA website shows 5 stars for the side impact (all occupant locations) , 4 for frontal impact driver and 3 for frontal impact passenger. I saw a guy on here posted pics of a 4 Runner he personally saw (relative) in a multiple rollover accident. The driver walked away from it. It was impressive. However, NHTSA only gives 3 stars for rollover. Why am I looking at this? Well my wife currently drives a Honda Accord. She is about to get a Rav 4, similar weight (3450). I would note the NHTSA tests in frontal impact is a collision with a similar sized vehicle (4750 lbs) each traveling at 35 mph. I am a structural Engineer. When under my 4 Runner doing maintenance I am impressed by the “body on frame” design. The steel frame has “boxed” members. In a crash, mass and stiffness always wins. The 4 Runner is heavier than an Accord (or Rav 4) by about 1300 lbs. I think the average member of the public might compare an Accord crash test against a 4 Runner (similar ratings) without reading the test conditions. My wife and I are retired , age 65, and safety is becoming increasingly more important to us. I think the 4 Runner would hold up well in an accident compared to an Accord or Rav 4. The reason we were looking at the Rav 4 is gas mileage. Investigating the Rav 4 it seems like a well engineered vehicle but it has all the complex systems which will likely sacrifice reliability. It has an electric , variable speed water pump with heated thermostat. A variable speed oil pump. And this coolant bypass valve that seems to leak before 50,000 miles. All this stuff for efficiency. The antique 4 Runner has a reputation for reliability. But even if it’s no more reliable, at our age, not getting hurt in an accident seems to be real important. I am leaning toward getting another 4 Runner instead of a Rav 4. We drive about 14,000 miles per year each. I am wondering what thoughts are in this forum about not having a higher mileage vehicle in exchange for more crash safety. We may become a two 4 Runner family.

 

The 4Runner is probably the least safe Toyota made. As you point out, the frame is very strong, but the passenger compartment is what protects you in an accident.

Check out the photos on the NHTSA website, you'll see where the front end caves in to the front seat footwells. The Rav4 and other unibodies are much sturdier in the cabin, since the body is the structural member.

I feel mich safer in my Rav4 than the 4R, and honestly it's nicer to drive too. Ymmv, though.

 

I’ll check out the pictures. You may have a point. On the other hand, lower cars like an Accord will collide with the frame rails in a side impact with a 4 Runner. And tend to slide under the 4 Runner. I have to think in a front collision, the 4 Runner bumper/ frame will absorb much energy upon impact for same reasons. The difficult thing is trying to compare the collision of dissimilar vehicles, which is more likely to occur. There are many trucks and SUVs on the road. The 4 Runner looks to protect well in side impacts (5 stars) even with similar sized (heavy) vehicle. I will go look at the pictures now. Thanks for the info.

 

Yeah, car vs truck crashes are whole other animal.

 

If you are only looking at the rav4 for the gas mileage, I think a simple cost/benefit analysis would suffice. To put pen to paper...

[Vehicle]: ([Mi/yr] / [avg mpg]) * [price/gal]

Using avg $4/gal

EPA combined 17mpg
4runner: (14k / 17) * 4 = ~$3294/yr

EPA combined 29mpg?
Rav4: (14k / 29) * 4 = ~$1931/yr

Difference of ~$1363/yr, or ~$114/mo

Not sure if there is a purchase price difference that compensates, or how the safety and reliability factors in but... there the gas difference.

 

Agreed. So the question is does saving $114/month in gas offset the additional risk (if any) of being in an accident with a typical car. As we age we have seen older (65 or older) get hurt in car wrecks that are not life threatening. But perhaps get injured badly and really never get over it. My wife feels like the 4 Runner is so substantial riding in it and driving it she feels like if she got hit by a typical 3400 lb vehicle she would be safer in the heavier, higher vehicle with a frame. We drove a Rav 4 and liked it but it doesn’t feel as substantial as a 4 Runner. The test results for 4 Runner looking decent with 5 stars for all side impacts in all locations. The Rav 4 and 4 Runner both get 4 stars overall for frontal impacts but the Rav 4 passenger tests better than the 4 Runner passenger for front impacts. Not sure why. But the significant point IMO is the 4 Runner is 1350 lbs heavier hitting the wall (load cells). So a lighter vehicle hitting the 4 Runner would yield better test results than a 4 Runner hitting a 4 Runner. Looks like the test just gets the test vehicle up to impact speed, rams a wall with load cells behind it and records tons of data. The airbag systems look like they perform well. But in summary, if we can avoid getting hurt as bad, driving a heavier, stiffer frame vehicle, we don’t really care about the gas savings. Because one bad injury and the rest of retirement will not be enjoyable. It’s not an easy decision. Definitely thought provoking.

 

If safety is primary concern, that is a tougher decision.

I think unibodies probably have better crumple zones that help protect against lower speed impacts - i believe that's one driving factor for moving away from BOF designs. The big, heavy vehicles back in the day were built like a brick house but passed all of that force onto the occupants.

Speed would be another factor and if you're driving 14k miles/yr you probably are doing highways at higher speeds. Unfortunately, at higher speeds, not sure there is much you can do since you can't control what happens. You could be impacted by a smart car or an 18 wheeler and both have vastly different outcomes in either a 4runner or rav4.

With your reported age I'm sure you and your wife have tons of experience but if you are concerned about safety I would recommend a defensive driving class. I saved up and took one instead of drivers ed so I could get my license earlier (I was 15 at the time, about 25 years ago) and I feel like I was a much better driver than my peers who just took driver's ed in school. It was almost a psychology course for driving, and it's amazing how well I can predict other driver's behavior just by having situational awareness on the road. I was on the interstate once with my wife and I told her "this car is about to pass me on the right and cut me off without using a signal" because I saw them weaving through traffic as they came up behind me. It was basically their only option at their speed with the traffic on the road. I let off the gas just to give enough room that they didn't clip me as they came through and she acted as if I was nostradamus - asking how I could see into the future

 

All good points. This idea of getting another 4 Runner vs a Rav 4 came up as a result of my wife driving and riding in the 4 Runner. It just feels like a more substantial vehicle. I’m sure it’s the combination of weight and suspension that gives it that solid feeling. So we will have to consider these factors. We have the Accord for sale and are getting something to replace it. It may come down to just the idea that my wife really likes the 4 Runner. I didn’t see this coming honestly. It is more expensive, about $12,000. I appreciate the input.

 

For what it's worth (FWIW), I think any modern SUV is going to be better than an Accord as far as safety is concerned.

I had a mazda3 back when I was younger - had a box with (2) 10" subs in the trunk along with a bag of golf clubs and some other shit in the trunk. It was hit by a drunk driver in an apartment complex (luckily nobody inside my vehicle). He was in a Ford explorer sport track (truck) with brush guard. His bumper came right over the frame of the mazda3 and crushed the trunk, pushing that speaker box, golf bag, etc. into the back seat. They were fold down for extra storage capabilities but those bolts sheared right off and anyone in the back seat would probably have been killed - he wasn't even going that fast in a parking lot.

I've been driving SUVs ever since

 

I have to second this. While I have not taken such a class in a car, I have had several on-road motorcycle courses. It's really amazing how it changes your perspective on driving and, as mentioned above, your ability to predict what other drivers will do. One simple thing is to get in the habit of looking as far ahead as you can see rather than focusing a fixed distance in front of you, or fixating on the vehicle you are following.

Personally, I have found that driving is much more fun after participating in such training. Driving is less a chore and more of a puzzle-solving exercise.
Back to vehicle selection. If you're primary goal is safety, maybe some other brands might be worth a look A friend's wife rolled her Volvo SUV on an interstate and came away unscathed though the vehicle was totaled.

 

My brother’s wife has a Volvo and likes it. I’m kinda partial to Toyota, and new to 4 Runner but been a Tacoma fan for 24 years. The reliability has been impressive along with resale. I’m hoping the Car Care Nut is correct regarding the 4 Runner and its reliability. No cars are perfect but with all the change going on in automotive design, I’m wanting something proven regarding reliability. Those venturing off in the EV world or plug-in Hybrid world really are like Pioneers. The cost of replacing batteries and such will really affect car values later when they hit that 6-8 head mark. Cars are too expensive already without the possibility of spending $10,000 or more on a battery?

 

I think this is great advice. The drivers skill, experience, and judgement is what primarily and actively guarantees safety. A vehicle may have great “passive” crash safety, but those tests cant represent every situation. A heavy BOF car will be good for some things, but worse for others. You can’t guarantee a crash will happen in the way that suits the vehicles strengths.

As Bob Hoover, test pilot extraordinaire said: “Fly the plane all the way through the crash”. Same applies with cars, don’t stop driving after the first impact, as long as you are awake and moving, keep driving. This alone will minimize damage.

 

I definitely drive my 4R differently than did my Accord or my Outbacks. On the positive side, visibility is better. I can and do see farther in every direction, so I have slightly earlier awareness of potentially bad situations. On the other hand, it's not as good at sudden direction changes, can't accelerate as quickly, and seems to have longer stopping distance. I find myself trying to maintain greater spacing than I used to, slowing down more and sooner than I used to when I don't like the situation, and giving even less weight to the option of any sort of quick direction change. As others have mentioned, I'm very much into reading the minds of drivers around me, and very much not into "winning" any situation.

I did look into the safety data before choosing the 4R, and I chose it knowing I was taking a step down in that department. I hope adjusting my driving style will mitigate that somewhat.

 

I’ve got no problem with the power of the brakes. In fact, I’m still getting used to their bite. But it does pitch around much more under braking.

Agree that the roll stability of the standard suspension is not really that great, and it can get real hairy when braking hard and changing directions. Avoidance manuevers like this get the rear end really light and makes it feel like you could snap oversteer. On most cars I’d trust the stability control system, but computer intervention won’t be able to use them to correct any oversteer if the tires are unloaded. Heavy braking and steering input can be dangerous in any car, but likely less forgiving in a 4runner with standard suspension.

The KDSS system will probably help a ton in this regard, since it has massive swaybars that will control lean a lot more.

 

Well I'm no structural engineer but the reason the 4runner scores so poorly in safety testing is that, relatively speaking, it's a very unsafe vehicle. It has the worst roll over rating of about anything being sold right now. So as other have suggested, if your wife looks into defensive driving classes, she might just flip the 4runner over doing an aggressive defensive maneuver.

Reason is, regarding safety, it's old tech, as you actually pointed out yourself with it's box frame. New vehicles are built such that they are meant to crumple in the front and back and absorb the energy so that less energy is transferred directly into the passenger section of the vehicle. Additionally the passenger areas of the vehicles are now built to withstand crashes and not crumple.

Remember the guy who drove his Tesla off a 330 foot cliff to kill his family but everyone survived? No frame on that car. That was a model Y which has an aluminum and steal frame. what? Aluminum? no way? isn't that stuff soft? Yes! its is! and light weight to get better MPG but they are designing cars these days very differently, again, so the passenger section does not crush like a soda can.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ff-family-said-purpose-unsealed-doc-rcna85033

Again, I'm no structural engineer but the fact that we have a body on frame these days tells us something. Tells us it's an OLD design. No one does that shit anymore. Even trucks are getting away from frames. So what if it's old though? Well cars are always getting safer and safer. Pretty neat. 4runner having an old design, logic dictates it probably has old properties, like shitty safety. Which it does. Which is why it has a bad safety rating.

I don't know the physics and structural engineering behind what makes cars safer these days but I've known for some time that they are and very vaguely why. It's just one of those common knowledge things as you run across information in life. I mean hell, even when we bought our 4runner I was thinking...man I bet this is really unsafe compared to anyone else out there because of it's age. Videos like this really help illustrate the point. You have these effeminate, small new cars going up against a brute seemingly solid steal old car. One of them gets crushed. Hint - it's the one with the worse safety rating that looks like it's built like a tank. and then it has some smaller, but still older cars against a newer car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB6oefRKWmY


Even though the current gen 4runner started in 2012 and the video I linked has a 2009 Malibu, that Malibu has a better safety rating because the 4runner was designed with old tech. Toyota is the largest auto manufacturer int he world so the consolidate materials where they can. The frame is the same as the landcruiser which was already a few years old in 2012 and already not built for safety or at least the way cars are now.

 

Oh man, those videos were painful to watch.

Being in a crash in the Malibu actually looks pleasant compared to the other cars.

 

Some very valid points. Yes the Tesla (unibody) example falling off the cliff was very incredible. The body-on-frame design (trucks, SUVs) accommodates the ability to haul loads and perform towing efficiently compared to a unibody. It seems the challenge for body-on-frame design is transferring loads that are imparted by colliding with the body, into the meaningful frame. The unibody construction is lighter which translates into fuel economy which is the driving force (in addition to material savings) behind their evolution. And since there is no “frame” , the forces make their way around the vehicle from continuous connection in a “shell-like” design. An analysis technique called “finite element analysis” allows for the unibody construction and it really is amazing. I think the feedback I’m getting here is that defensive driving and situational awareness are great tools for avoiding accidents. My wife gets easily distracted driving, even IF talking on phone using hands free. I think my main goal here is gonna be to get her to NOT take calls while driving. As an Engineer I establish priorities while living that make my survival as goal number 1. When I drive staying alive is my top priority, second to NOT hurting anyone else. Same when using my chainsaw and driving my tractor. My wife isn’t like that. She is just as concerned about being polite as staying alive. I can’t buy a vehicle that fixes that. I would like to point out that I believe the 6th Gen 4 Runner is gonna still be body on frame. And the crash tests for the current Gen for side impact is 5 star for all seating positions. The final thing that is the hardest to judge is that the crash tests goal is to simulate the impact of 2 vehicles of similar size and weight. The idea of colliding with a smaller and/or lighter vehicle could only be simulated by reducing the speed (below 35 mph) of the heavier test vehicle to a lower value , to reflect the energy being absorbed by the heavier vehicle from the lighter one. Obviously the test results would be more favorable. Conversely if the test vehicle was the lighter vehicle , the impact speed would need to be increased (beyond 35 mph) to reflect the higher energy being imparted from the heavier vehicle. Again, obviously the test results would be worse.

 

4Runner is an unsafe vehicle, compared to most other vehicles on the road.
If safety is a prime concern look elsewhere. Look at Volvo for instance, they don't design to crash test but to improve passenger safety. Case in point, small overlap test.
Driving on road is a risk. Driving in a 4Runner is a higher risk. How much % higher? Depends on several factors including the driver. Do what lets you sleep at night.

 

Per the dash cam video (I was not in the car) when my 4Runner hit the CR-V seeing how the CR-V was tossed I feel pretty good about the 4Runner. (I guess 5000lbs vs 3000lbs).

Also with the lift the hood was at almost 4/3 of the CR-V side windows / head level of any occupants. So I feel bit safer with a taller vehicle.

With the sliders I feel like the impact stopping physics would start little early if I get hit from the side.

I also seen a video (Robby Layton autobody channel) the amount of air bags 4Runner has so feel pretty good about it.

So I think I feel safe on 4Runner vs cars / small crossovers.

 

100% agree. In a head on collission, I'd say same thing. Sadly that covers only a small percent of crashes/accidents.

 

I think it’s important to note that defensive driving is about AVOIDING situations that require aggressive maneuvers. You might be thinking about self-defense “tactical”’driving for if you are literally being attacked. That’s not what was suggested.

Defensive driving requires situational awareness skills, planning, anticipation, and sound judgement for the purpose of avoiding dangerous situations. It’s not about relying on the the vehicle’s handling to save you.

I’m not sure if there’s much out there offering defensive driving lessons. But any run-of-the-mill drivers ed course is built upon the concept of defensive driving. A commercial drivers course, or street-motorcycle course would also heavily focus on defensive driving skill sets, because in both of those examples, crashing at even fender bender speeds has pretty severe repercussions.

 

My 4Runner forces me to drive slower I also hate the nose dive so I allow plenty of space between the vehicle in front of me and my 4Runner. Not sure if others notice this too compared to some of the other vehicles you might be driving.

 

Honestly, I think once we lift, add sliders, armor, etc, we are giving up whatever passive/structural safety toyota designed into the vehicle. Not to mention, we worsen the dynamics of the vehicle at road speeds, which aren’t great to begin with. Basically, we become test pilots when we start modifying heavily.

 

modded 4R drivers == crash test dummies

 

Funny you should mention being distracted while taking calls, even with hands free. I just watched an old episode of Mythbusters where they tested driving skills on the phone, both hand held and hands free. They found that it didn't really matter if you were using one hand to hold the phone or not - distracted driving is distracted driving

 

LOL, I guess…. Although I’d prefer to identify with something a bit more “alert”.

I guess the 4runner being old tech really was designed with the assumption that the driver was very afraid of crashing. It’s not a car, it’s based on a truck made to do truck things. Trucks are not really safe vehicles in the big scheme of things. That’s important to keep in mind…it’s not designed with crash safety as a priority.

 

Yeah the 4runner would do better in most accidents because most accidentbare low speed. Just little fender benders. I've had a couple people hit my 4runner and their cars crumpled.....because they are built to crumple...because they are safer. So less repairs for small accidents a 4runner. Exactly the same as a car from the 60s.

But in the really bad accidents that will likely kill you. The 4runner is less safe and you're all the more likely to die.

 

We have thoroughly scared @rmiked into not buying a 4R

 

I already have 1. Took deliver April 6! Love it! I’m just trying to talk my wife into a Rav 4. Or I’m gonna have 2 - 4 Runners. I just hauled and spread 2 loads of mulch today using my Moon Buggy. Getting to ready to drive to my farm to store trailer there and check on a few things. Like shoot my 10mm 1911 at my pistol range, which requires an off-road vehicle to access. I’m hoping to keep this thing 15 years.

 

Pretty sure someone else will buy it.