Tire Rotation on a Limited All Wheel Drive

Hello,

Just finished "my first" oil change on my 2021 4Runner Limited that I bought back in January with 15k miles. I bought the vehicle from an Audi Dealer, so no background on it. I did go to my local Toyota dealer and gave him my VIN number but when he pulled it up, no service records were shown. So, I am going to rotate my tires this weekend. I have read through one thread about tire rotation but I am not planning on using my spare even though it does have the same tire/wheel combo as the others. The picture in the book is not much help if you are not using the spare and it seems even if you do use the spare, it only goes on the right side and never the left side. After looking around on the internet, I did come across this on a Toyota website but it seems generic.

https://www.earlstewarttoyota.com/service/service-tips/how-often-should-you-rotate-your-tires/

How to Rotate Tires on AWD Vehicles
Follow the instructions below to guarantee a safe and reliable AWD tire rotation:

• The left rear goes to the right front spot.
• The right rear goes to the left front spot.
• The right front goes to the left rear spot.
• The left front goes to the right rear spot.

Would this be correct for the Limited with All Wheel Drive?

Thanks!

 

Owners manual is your best friend. Service manual also got good amount of info what maintenance to do depending on different driving conditions.

https://www.toyota.com/owners/resources/warranty-owners-manuals.4runner.2021

 

Thanks for the response but as stated, I do not plan on using the spare at this time. It has 20k miles on the odometer and I took the spare off to put some air in it and it has never been in rotation (both the tire and wheel are still like new). I do have the manual and did look at the picture you posted which does not work for my situation. It only offers what to do if using the spare.

 

Hi Number 6 - one note to make in your research is that the 21 Limited isn't All Wheel Drive, it's full-time 4 Wheel Drive and there is a difference. Our 22 Limited 4WD is my wife's, we purchased it new and since new have taken it to Discount Tire (where we do all of our tire business) every 5k miles, tossed them the keys and had them do the rotation they suggested.

Also note that your 21 came with 30k miles of free oil/filter change and tire rotations - and I believe (pretty sure) that's transferrable. So, with 15k miles, maybe just take it to the dealership?

 

Then just eliminate the spare from the rotation. Not complicated. Just do back to front and front to back like the top picture shows then.

 

When I do a 4 tire rotation, it's rear to front (same side) and front to opposite side rear.

 

Thanks for that. You are correct. They are not the same. I will investigate further. As far as taking it to the dealership...I would rather do these things myself. Too many times I've taken a car to the dealer and they either scratch something or put something on too tight, use the wrong oil, etc. I don't mind doing these things and if I mess something up, I can only blame myself. I use FCP Euro to buy my oil and it ends up only costing me my time and $30 for Liqui moly full synthetic oil. Plus, I actually like getting in there and seeing what's going on underneath every few months.

"Not complicated" If you read the top picture, it is for vehicles without P245/60R20 tires which mine has. The second picture is for my car/tires but I am not using the spare.

 

The only difference between the 2 pictures is the spare and you're not using it. I don't see the problem.

 

My reasoning is that in the first top of the picture, it says vehicles without, in the second picture it shows with my tire size using the spare. It seems that if you do it with the spare, the right side is getting the spare added in and the left side tires are always on. It seems that the left side would ware faster than the right.

I called three Toyota Dealers and was amazed that I got the same answer from all of them. The same as the top diagram in the picture. So you are correct and Thanks!

 

Is the spare a full size, same design rim?

 

Glad to help out!

 

Yes. The spare is the exact same as the other four tires and wheels.

 

With deference to the manual, if you have non stock tires, more specifically symmetrical and non-directional tires, you can rotate in a way that swaps the sides.

I’m a fan of a five wheel rotation myself.

So it depends on what tires you’re looking at.

Cheers
Mike

 

I'd rethink not rotating in the spare tire. On a full time 4WD Limited - if you don't rotate in the spare you could get to the point where the 4 tires you rotate are close to the end of their life - and then you need the spare for a flat tire. In this scenario the spare tire will not have any wear on it - and the other three tires will be well worn. This is no bueno for a full time 4WD vehicle.

 

My '14 Limited spare tire is mounted on a bright ass yellow 20" rim. No way am I putting this thing on unless needed to replace a flat.

 

I think the limited is the only trim (or any other variant with P245//60R20 tires) that comes with a full matching spare tire/wheel combo. Which is probably the reason the manual doesn't instruct to rotate the spare on other trims.

 

Yeah - but that is because the Limited is the only one that is equipped with full time 4WD. If you never rotate in the spare tire - and the remaining 4 tires are worn to nearly the end of their life and you get a flat - the spare tire you replace the flat with will have a larger outside diameter than the three remaining old tires. With a full time 4WD vehicle this is not an ideal situation and could cause some drivetrain issues if you drive for a long time with the one tire that does not match the overall diameter of the other 3. This is why Toyota provides a matching spare wheel on the Limited - it is not to make your tires last longer - or save you from driving around with a goofy looking spare. It is so (assuming you rotate your tires as you should) all 5 wheels/tires remain very close to the same outside diameter - so if you do get a flat tire you can replace it with the spare and not worry about causing drivetrain issues by using one tire that is larger than the other three. Your tires will last 25% longer - but it will cost you 25% more to replace them since you will have to replace 5 tires instead of 4 - so cost is a wash - if you are lucky enough to never have a flat and need to install the spare. If you have 40K miles on your set of 5 tires and you get a flat - you can change the flat with the spare that has been rotated in and will be very close to the same outside diameter - but you can't just replace the spare with a new tire - you'll need to replace all 5 tires if you want to have a usable spare. Cost of having full time 4WD. Kind of a buzz kill for all the people who thought Toyota was just being nice and threw in a matching spare wheel/tire because you bucked up for a Limited. They weren't just being nice - they did it to prevent people from wrecking their full time 4WD system.

 

Did someone say spare tire?

https://giphy.com/gifs/meme-homer-simpson-OFlZF1rpfRIZy

 

So what would you do if on your Limited, with 25,000 miles on the tires, you got a flat so severe that it required a full tire replacement?

 

Depends. Are you saying 25,000 miles on the 5 tires that have been rotated every 5000 miles? If so, replace the flat with the spare - then you have to replace all 5 tires if after 25,000 miles there is enough wear that a single new tire would be larger enough in diameter to cause a problem. Depending on the tire and how you drive - I think after 25,000 miles you'd probably need to get 5 new tires. You could put this off as long as you are comfortable going without a spare.

If you are saying 25,000 miles on 4 tires - and the spare has never been rotated in - not a good situation. You said severe flat - so I am assuming i can't air it up enough to limp somewhere. I'd probably put the spare on if I could then drive a short distance to get new tires. I probably would not put on the spare in this situation and then drive 500-1000 miles to get home before getting new tires.

 

It really depends on how worn the existing tires are. New tires typically have about 10/32" of tread - and they are considered worn out when they are down to ~2/32"-3/32" of tread left. Overall diameter of a new P245/60R20 tire is ~31.6" = 99.27" in circumference. With tread wear of ~7/32" (tires very near the end of their life) the circumference of the tires would be ~ 97.90". So a spare with no wear on it would be about 1-3/8" larger in circumference than the other three tires. The differentials and transfer case have to make up for this by turning the larger tire at a slightly slower rotation speed. The drivetrain is not designer to do this constantly. How much is too much? I think I've seen where more than a 1/4" difference in diameter between 2 tires on the driven axle of a 2WD vehicle or 4 tires on an AWD or full time 4WD vehicle would be too much. I can't find what Toyota considers to be too much of a difference - but this is absolutely the reason they recommend rotating the spare in on full time 4WD Limiteds.

 

so same deal on a part time 4WD with a full spare? You'd want to rotate all 5 tires?

although if the flat is on one of the rear tires, and 5 tire rotation has NOT been done, we could replace the flat rear by one of the front tires and put the spare that has no wear up front? Am I understanding this correctly?

 

I thought the rear axle was open when the locker wasn’t engaged. The rear wheels should turn different speeds with no issue (else how does a turn work?).

 

If you have some tires with significantly different diameters there needs to be a difference in rotational speed of the tires to make up for this. Yes, the open differential does this when the vehicle turns - but in the case of different diameter tires the differential must make an adjustment even when driving straight - and even more when the vehicle turns. It will overwork the differential. I doubt there would be much of an issue if you swapped out a flat tire for a spare that was slightly different in diameter - if you then replaced your tires fairly soon after. You wouldn't want to drive around with different diameter tires for very long though.

 

THANKS! You reminded me I need a tire rotation

 

On a part time 4WD truck, where you have rotated the tires using the 4-tire front-to-back pattern, if you get a flat on an older tire you would replace both tires on the same axle. The idea is to avoid having mismatched tires across from one another on the same differential.

This little addendum is all I could find in the manual.

 

Funny that they say do not mix tires of different make, models, tread pattern but they provide a spare that’s all of the above for the TRD Pro.

However, I have a full matching spare on mine that I bought separately. So I’m better off doing the same 5 tires rotation as instructed for the limited, that way if I get a flat I can replace the flat by the spare tire which would have similar mileage as the others, right?

 

In the grand scheme of things and IMO, a tire that is close to its end of life next to a new, unused spare (same make & size) does not have a significant height difference that it will/can harm an open differential.
Now if you're talking a 2-3" difference with a locked diff, that would be like turning a corner at full lock for 20,000 miles.
And the front tires would be wasted by then. Who does that?

 

I’m not an expert but I think if the tires are different diameters, even by a little bit, you will be putting a constant load on one side of the spider gears during straight line driving.

 

But probably not as bad as driving on a donut.