KDSS existing or new owners BEWARE!

Damn we are think a like..!!!
In 2018 I found non KDSS with headed seats at Mountain States Toyota. It did had sunroof. I loved my no moonroof SR5 alot for extra headroom and little more protection from f'n hail Last yeah I was in hail storm in late October at Guanella Pass Geneva creek trail on top of the mountain..!! Lucky no visual damage. Didn't bothered to inspect with insurance.

 

I couldn’t find one with KDSS in 22, nor one with out the hole in the roof. The more I have hung around here, I’m happier not having KDSS, or more knowing that that expensive repair isn’t in my future.

 

I chose KDSS after driving one with and one without on a really windy day and felt KDSS really helped with the wandering. I know it limits aftermarket suspensions but I only put on a mild lift anyway and it was nice for the 3 years without a lift before that. Luckily this forum warned me about keeping the actuator clean so hopefully I won't have expensive future repairs.

As for the sunroof, I wanted that too after reading how great it is open with the back window down. I don't regret it. Would be nice to have extra headroom but I'm not a giant and I'd probably just do something stupid like put another molle panel up there

As for protection, I have a gobi with sunroof insert so wasn't that concerned about it during our last hail storm

 

Been meaning to peek under the KDSS hood, first time ever yikes. Not much rust surprisingly, but def gravel and dirt. I recently installed full Dr. KDSS switch kit, you really do feel the difference right away. I like to take corners fast now to feel the T4R lean

 

this

 

Do you have a diy for the KDSS switch kit control?

 

@STrooper

https://youtu.be/UMmqE8CKRfE

https://drkdss.com/en-ca/collections/kdss/products/factory-fit-kdss-dash-switch

 

Guys so I e-taped the exposed electrical conductors before soft brush and rinse, now just send it on the clear rust inhibitor spray no taping off? (not using POR15 or Woolwax at least not yet?

 

Since I dont know how close the electrical connections are or how sealed they are, personally I would brush on woolwax over the hydraulic line fittings and that manifold block. Mostly because other products have solvents and I wouldnt want to find out what they do to plastics or wiring connectors.

 

Btw, yours looks great! Good time to be doing this. Even when you coat it, I think the secret is going to be occassional inspections to make sure you dont build up a bunch of mud/dirt under those covers.

 

I just had mine opened up today while installing my sliders. A lot of grit and gravel in there but corrosion was not too bad. I cleaned it as best I could and sprayed the whole assembly with Boeshield.

 

The majority of folks who drive 4Runners will more then likely not know if they have KDSS or ever encounter a failure of the system. I plan on installing the Dr. KDSS control this year, I drive a lot of miles on washboarded dirt roads and see the benefit of disabling the system.

 

Well, the majority of people don’t know that the KDSS needs to be maintained thus they encounter problems. Right now all you hear is that it needs to be “flushed” aka cleaned, and that’s all you need to do. Nonetheless the hydraulic fluid needs to be replaced every so often to prevent system failure. Folks that do not check it frequently or worst, think it's indestructible. Hence the leaks etc.

 

THANKS @McSpazatron
Woolwax these baby's too eh?
This rear KDSS?

 

That’s a new bit of information. Please point to where this is specified in the Toyota maintenance documentation.

 

I haven't heard of this either. It seems like it would be a bitch to bleed the air from the system.

 

There is probably no info in the manual for maintenance for the KDSS(they probably leave that for the dealer$hip to advise you) My mechanic recommends to bleed the hydraulic fluid at least every 35k miles. Here is a video from someone changing the system perhaps b/c it wasn’t maintained and got a warning code.
https://youtu.be/xhRUxX4ySf4

 

So, Toyota doesn't recommend changing the fluid, but your mechanic does?

I'd think if it were required, it would be in the maintenance schedule. I also think you'd have a better chance of causing problems by opening up the system rather than just leaving it alone.

 

I had the same question and the easy answer he gave me was that anything that operates with fluids should be maintained and thus the KDSS system has a drainage for it. He also quote that the hydraulic pressure changes specifically if you are OR and the majority of the leaking issues could have been prevented by a simple hydraulic fluid change and regulate the pressure etc. Think about it, have you heard of a dealership or perhaps a car manufacturer/manual advising not to change your transmission fluid? Crazy right? Well, there is car owners that still change the TF because is the obvious thing to do and don’t want to replace the transmission when that day comes.

 

It makes sense that things should require maintenance, but I would still have concerns about going off the opinion of some mechanic over what the Toyota engineers decided was or wasn't necessary.

Is he offering to perform this maintenance, and then cover any repairs that end up being required? Just in case you would end up with problems due to air getting in the system, or maybe a valve, or the accumulator getting damaged during the process.

How does he know what fluid to use? I'd assume it's probably regular brake fluid, but I don't believe it's specified in the manual.

If there's something in the FSM about this, I'd be interested in seeing what it says.

Have you done this fluid change yet? If so, how many miles since the procedure, and have you had any issues? I'd assume not, because otherwise you wouldn't be recommending it.

 

I don’t have a KDSS. Couple years ago I saw him doing a flush on a GX and I asked him the question. What he said made sense to me, I believe any moving parts fluids etc needs maintenance. He is a master mechanic that have worked with Honda and Toyota for 30yrs combined and now working from his home for a long time as well.

 

I agree with your logic there. I'm probably just paranoid about messing with it.

I think Toyota could have done better with KDSS. It's such a great concept, but maybe not executed as well as it could have been.

I'm looking forward to seeing if they improve the next version. The new E-KDSS on the current Landcruiser looks like an improvement. Hopefully the next 4Runner gets an improved version as well.

 

This is a concern for long term owners. And the fact these can corrode easily, means that anybody buying used should inspect this system to avoid heartbreak.

 

Hey all.

New here. Have a deposit on a '13 Trail Edition - just noticed that there's a small, yellow indicator in one of the dash pictures that says "KDSS". Waiting to hear back from dealer if this is on consistently - either way, I'd like to know the above as well:

If (and when) some component within the KDSS system fails, is it possible to just replace it with a standard sway bar system?

Thanks,

J

 

The KDSS light on the dash will flash at startup. If it is on at any other time, there's a problem. Good call looking into it!

The mounting points for the standard sway bars are different, and not installed on KDSS 4Runners. You'd have to weld them onto the frame .

 

Thanks for this. Dealer had originally sent me a vid with the car running in park. Sadly, I went back and could see the KDSS light on.

They’ll definitely need to take it to a Toyo dealer and even then, I’ll have trouble trusting them. Shame. This would be my first 4runner and I LOVE the 2010-2013 Trail models.

I was planning to pay for my own pre purchase inspection before buying - the dealer did their own as well. Saw the print out and all. Suspension system cleared.

Wild that they’d miss that…

j

 

With my experience Toyota dealerships are never to be trusted. On 2 different dealerships I was charged for oil change but had old oil, another time skid plate bolt threads were cross threaded, another time one of the bold almost cross threaded just half way in, another time oil filter plate not installed, the biggest accident repair not done properly and service manager deny when I show driveability issues me having to complain to Toyota corporation and having to settle directly with the dealership General Manager.

Really hope that you have Toyota specialist pre-purchase tech. I doubt general tech would know about special things like KDSS, XREAS or may be even to check front diff actuator vs bearing (part-time vs full-time). And many other to check closely vs checking for oil leaks & coolant checked on other vehicles.

 

Good catch! I’m sure somebody at the used car dealer knew that light wasn’t just there for looks.

I think it’s wild that they missed the malfunction light when they bought the vehicle for their inventory. Now that they screwed up, they have to sell it somehow… to someone. I suppose after you, they’ll try to sell it to some unaware buyer. If that doesn't work, then they’ll probably need to get rid of it at auction.

The early 5th gen trails are my favorite too! Good luck with your hunt!