Electrical connection for winch install

I'm using 15x15 & 15x30 extruded tubing to built mine. My plan is to have a rack that can be easily removed, with everything still mounted on top (awning/box/etc.) using a ceiling mount hoist. That will leave only the 4 mounting brackets on the roof for daily driving. I could not find a whole rack design in the market that allows me to do that easily, that's the main reason I'm making my own. So far, the biggest challenge is to make the mounting bracket for the 4 locations using factory holes. My initial design was too short, and didn't account for the angle of the factory bolt holes. Planning on using a Thule box on top, Thule uses these "grabbers" called PowercClick that needs at least 3/4" space below the bar, so my cross bars can't be as close to the roof as I wanted.

I didn't want to buy the mount, the 1 I could find from some DIY youtube video is expensive, can't remember the name of the company. The youtuber "overland engineer" used it when he built his own rack, I think it cost like $500 or more. I'm almost done with these brackets, ran out of mig welding wire on monday, then my metal cutting blade stopped cutting on Wednesday, have to buy these from Amazon and wait for them to be delivered, all these are causing delays.

The most challenging part is to keep all 4 mounts level and on the same plan/angle with each other. I think I got it figured out now, within 0.5mm for all 4 sides. Just using the driver front location as reference, built that mount first, and leveled everything from there. But it took a lot of planning and thinking through. If that still doesn't work, I guess I will have to buy that expensive mount. We shall see.

 

Fuses prevent fires. If the winch motor fails and becomes a bolted fault with no fuse how do you interrupt the circuit?

You seem like you want to pick a fight with me, (what color?)

Your time would be better spent reading a book on basic electricity. Then you wouldn't embarrass yourself by posting ignorant baloney that is technically unsound and dangerous.

Oh, just to clarify your "battery rating" misinformation, battery fault current can be 100 times or more of battery rated current. If you knew half as much as you think you do you'd know that.

Try to calm down, Suzy, you're gonna get the drizzles...

 

Respectfully, you should just Google this topic and see what people are saying and have been doing for decades, and furthermore why that is.

Edit: OK ok ok......ok....ok...i couldnt not google your term, so the battery fault current..which isn't a thing. Available fault current is the maximum available amperage of the battery. Which is also about what the winch needs. So a fuse does nothing.

You replied to this thread without even reading anything in this thread because this has been stated. ...without knowing anything about the application. You just know things need fuses (as we all do) and claim to know everything because you're an electrical engineer.

Cheap advice. Anytime anyone says "I'm a blah blah blah" it typically means you barely know what you're talking about and are too immature to explain why most likely because you don't know what you're talking about, otherwise you'd explain it.

 

The Odyessey battery in my truck will discharge 3100 amps if directly shorted to ground. That should be a compelling reason to have a fuse in the winch circuit.

 

Ohm's Law doesn't lie. It's science. It's mathematics.

And I am very proud of earning my Professional Engineer License. It means I have the education, experience and knowledge to do things crowboy doesn't have the intelligence to understand.

Education and experience seems to threaten know nothings like thacrow. Crowboy is jealous of experts, and by extention their training, experience and education.

I wonder... When crowboy's having a heart attack will he call a doctor or a ditch digger?

Good bye. I've had my fill of scientific illiteracy...

 

It's also (entirely stupid) entertainment. When I was about 13, my friends and I used to experiment with how conductive objects would get destroyed when used to short a fully-charged battery. Molten copper is an interesting substance, although our parents might not have agreed.

 

If you were smart, I'll say again: you would explain this in simple, convincing terms. You might be right but all you've said is that you're an authority so you're right.

People join these forums to share information. You may have a degree but you either refuse or are unable to share any information.

When you throw insults you're communicating that you can't explain any further and you get frustrated easily.

 

If the winch motor fails short (instead of open), the fuse is what keeps the battery from putting 3100 amps through the cables (not pretty) or you (even worse).

 

So I get that and my first inclination is to fuse it and relay (or put it on a keyed switch). But why is this not standard practice? Almost no one is fusing their winches and lately we are barely getting into putting winches on switches. Seems like they've mostly been hard wired for many years. The instructions on winches tell you to hard wire them.

And for the life of me I can't find any stories of bad failures. I've seen a a short in the wiring to a winch first hand which wasn't as bad as I would have thought.

If it was an issue we would hear more about and be able to point first hand stories and no one would run a winch without a fuse.

As I understand it, they don't fuse starter motors. Why is that? How is that safe? Wish we had an electrical engineer or someone who could explain this to lay people like myself.

 

I assume it is because many people feel like such a failure is unlikely and they assume they can mitigate the risk by accessing a manual switch quickly enough if the winch seems to be dying. That's not a crazy assumption, but it's also not difficult or expensive to lower the risk a lot further.

 

Going back to the starter motor. Why is that not fused? What happens if that fails like you're saying?

 

I haven't studied the 4R electrical system design. However, many cars have fused starters. On cars from my era, those fuses were BIG, not the little things in the cabin fuse box.

 

Which fuse would you use?

 

There are many people here more qualified to answer that than me. I don't normally do power systems. My area is more sensing and communications. I'd start with something rated for continuous operation with some margin above the winch power draw.

 

If you want to disconnect the winch when not in use, simply add a 2/0 Gauge 350 Amp Battery Quick Connectors from the battery to the winch. My winch has a fail safe and that it will shut off if the load is more than the winch can handle so there is no need for a fuse. I don't like to complicate things and keep the install simple.

 

Can you buy a fuse rated for a few hundred amps? Seriously, can you? Is that a thing?

 

What's your starter solenoid rated at? What will it do if that current is exceeded?

 

I have no idea. I'm not asking to be a dick. What is my starter solenoid rated at?

 

They vary, but they can be in multiple hundreds of amps.

 

I said earlier in this thread manual says my winch draws 446 amps. I can't find anything that says if this is the average, continuous or maximum.

Of course the fuse would need to be greater than the maximum. There's no information out there about fuse sizing, no recommendations from manufacturers (except to direct wire), no one seems to know.

There's only a handful of forums posts I can find where people fuse their winch but endless forum posts of people wondering with no answers

If fusing winches was a thing they would sell kits for this. Manufacturers would jump to sell more stuff.

 

@wingo made a good point. Some motors have built-in internal protection to prevent failing short. It's worth checking whether yours does. There are threads about this topic on Jeep forums that describe what others have done.

 

Thanks for clearing it up

 

Just to give everyone an update. I finished with some of the other mods, getting the C4 lo-pro front bumper painted/installed, winch install, light bar, etc. N ow back to making the electrical connections. I will be using a disconnect, the winch kit also came with a circuit breaker. I'm using the disconnect because I already have it, have the room to install it anyways. I built a platform to install these components, will not be relocating any parts. Still trying to decide how to layout all the parts on the platform.

Thanks for everyones' input. Will have some questions about where to connect a light bar so the factory fuse box later.

 

Which winch did you buy that came with a circuit breaker? How many amps does it take before tripping?

 

People need to be careful Adding a winch. I read how insurance companies are dropping people who do. Makes sense as that’s a clear indication you’re putting the vehicle in situations that could cause damage. There were some posts from people who have been dropped after notifying the insurance carrier of the winch addition

 

Anything to back this up?