ORP wheel fit options

I’m looking for an alternate set of wheels for my ORP. I’m not gonna modify my ORP with any lift or body mount chop or trimming fender liners. I’m sticking with stock tires, 265/70/17. The factory ORP wheels are 17 “ diameter, 7.5” wide , 4.5” backspace with +15mm offset. I am looking at TRD Pro wheels that are 17” x7”, 4.5” backspace with +4mm offset. So the Pro wheels are 1/2” narrower (7 vs 7.5”) and 11mm less offset. This means the wheel will be a wider stance by 11mm (15-4). With stock tires , 265/70/17 , mounted on the Pro dimension wheels, will there be any rubbing of tires on the wheel well at full turns or suspension articulation? Has anyone actually done this? I have read the Pro vehicles are modified at the factory to avoid rubbing. That makes me think an ORP with no modifications might rub? The XP package installed at port have black wheels and do not rub. I don’t know the specs on the XP wheels but suspect they are the same as Pro? I don’t know if the port modifies the XP 4 Runners the same as the TRD Pro to avoid rubbing. Thanks.

 

ORP that had Pro wheels on stock lift and 265 ATs here. no modifications to the body.

i had the slightest rub on the front bumper cover when steering was full lock left or right, slowing in reverse. front bumper rub is your only potential issue which a 1/4” trim and fender liner massage will remedy. otherwise clearance is fine everywhere else at any articulation and speed.

 

So the change in offset from +15mm to +4mm results in some slight rubbing of front bumper cover? Wow! I guess that means the XP packages the Port installs means they must be trimming the front bumper cover also? From what I read the best way to trim the front bumper cover is with a Dremel? You are talking about the body colored front bumper cover being trimmed and NOT only the fender liner? I would have a hard time cutting the body colored bumper cover but not a huge deal if only fender liner. A picture of what needs to be trimmed would be greatly appreciated.

 

Not sure your math is right.
For nominal wheel width, add 1 inch, divide by two, and that's the backspace at zero offset.
So the ORP wheels are 7.5". Zero offset would be 4.25" backspace. The +15mm (.6") offset pushes the backspace to 4.85".
TRDP wheels are 7". Zero offset would be 4" backspace. The +4mm (.16") offset pushes the backspace to 4.16".
The common 8.5" wheels (Method, etc) have a zero offset, which is 4.75" backspace.

Backspace is an indication of clearance from the spindle, UCA, etc. Smaller numbers = more clearance.
Offset is an indication of where the center of the contact patch sits.

For stance, you look at how far the outer rim is pushed out from the hub, which would be wheel width, plus one inch, minus backspace.
ORP 7.5" = 3.65".
TRDP 7.0" = 3.84".
Method 8.5" = 4.75".

 

I got the 4.5” backspace number from an article showing the specs? Anyway, based on your numbers it looks like the Pro wheels would only widen the stance 0.19” (3.84-3.65). So with 265/70/17 tires would they rub on stock ORP with NO modifications? I have seen various articles indicating the TRD Pros have the front bumper cover trimmed from Toyota. I have reproduced the specs I saw below:

 

Yes. Port installs do get some fender trimming. There is a technical service bulletin describing the procedure. Look for T-SB-0070-19.

I’m not so sure that it is valid to assume that the wheel flanges add an inch, or that they add the same amount to the inside and outside edges of the wheel.

 

The various tire specifications seems to be within a mm of the added one inch. Hence Method 8.5 / 4.75/ 0, RRW 8.5 / 4.75 / 0, RRW 8.5 / 4.28 / -12, and SRS 8.5 / 4.30 / -10mm.

 

I don't think the stats on the Trail4runner site are accurate. Check and let it calculate backspaces for inputted offsets.

 

Yes, that site reports a backspace of 4.84” instead of 4.5” , using the factory tires and wheels for ORP which include a +15mm offset. If you input same specs except offset of +4mm, the backspace drops to 4.41”. That means the TRD Pro wheels move out 0.43” on each side making the stance of the front tires 0.86” wider.

 

I don’t think the backspace can be calculated based on the nominal rim width and the offset. That would presume that the flange width for all wheels is the same, no?

 

It seems to me IF the rim width equals the “inside clear width between the flanges” and the backspace is the dimension to the OUTER plane of the inside wheel edge, then you would have to make assumptions about the flange thickness. They are likely not all the same.

 

You can't use the same specs and only change the offset. TRD Pro wheels are 7" wide, not 7.5, so with the same offset the outside would be .25" closer to the vehicle. You have to change both the width and the offset.

 

Yes, my mistake. I forgot the Pro wheels were narrower. Using 7” width and 4mm offset yields 4.17” backspace. That moves the tire out 0.67” each side or a stance wider by 1.34”. I’ll bet many have bought the Pro wheels for non-Pro 4 Runners and had rubbing issues which required some bumper trimming and fender liner cutting.

 

In the case of the 4Runner rim width and backspace are irrelevant. The 265/70r17 tire is 10.4 inches wide. Much wider than either the stock ORP rim or the Pro rim. The time to care about backspace is when there’s a chance of the rim hitting the spindle, which in the case of the 4Runner there isn’t. When changing rims or tires the part that rubs is the tire. So let’s forget about the backspace.

When you swap 265/70r17 tires on a 7.5” rim with +14mm offset for 265/7r17 tires on a 7” rim with +4mm offset, you move the tire outboard 11mm, or 0.4in. The tire sits centered over the rim, regardless if it’s 7 inches wide or 7½ inches wide. The change in rim width makes no difference. The tire width is the same.

 

The answer to your question is maybe.

You might rub or you might not.

It depends on your alignment.

If your caster is set on the higher side, you're bound to rub on the fender liner/flare with Pro wheels.

 

Captain Spalding, I hear the point that the rim width doesn’t affect the center of the tire and the tire width is the key parameter. However, doesn’t backspace locate the wheel laterally? And the lateral position of the wheel locates the tire laterally in the wheel-well. So when you move the tire outboard it is more likely to rub on the fender-well when the tire moves upward during suspension articulation. And the lateral position of the tire locates the radius about which the tire swings an arc in the wheel-well. So these guys doing “body mount chops” and trimming fender liners are doing so partly because they moved the wheel/tire outboard and then started hitting these structures because they were swinging an arc on a different (longer) radius, determined by changing the backspace? The interaction I just described would also be affected by just using a larger tire diameter even if you didn’t change the lateral position of the wheel/tire , by changing the backspace. Do you agree backspace is important in determining if rubbing will occur even with stock sized tires but using a smaller backspace?

 

Looks like they poke 4.6mm more than the OR wheels.

 

If that is correct, 4.6mm (0.18”) doesn’t sound like it would cause any issues rubbing anything. However it doesn’t match the 0.67” outward move I obtained using the website posted by Old Tanker above. That website calculates backspace when you input rim width and offset. I don’t know why they don’t match.

 

https://youtu.be/LAYGdcKSA3o

 

The backspace shifted by ~0.67". The wheel is a half inch narrower. Take off the 0.5" and you're at 0.17". The minor digits are just rounding errors.

 

I had a set of Powerbrakes installed at the same time as spindle gussets. The installer removed the factory dust shield from the inside the hubs. The 285/70 tires rubbed against the spindles during turns. A shift from TRDOR wheels to Method 8.5s added the required 0.1" backspace to fix the problem. The shift to a 1" wider wheel also pulled the tires outboard by 1/2". Minor differences count, but I would agree they don't apply to stock 4Runners.

 

No, it’s the offset that locates the wheel laterally. Look at it this way. Imagine you’ve got a 265mm wide tire on a 7 inch wide rim with a 4mm offset. Now swap that for an 8 inch wide rim with the same 4mm offset. You have increased the backspace by ½ inch, but the tire hasn’t moved at all in the wheel well. The constant factor in the equation is the hub flange mounting plane. Everything else moves relative to that.



What you were saying about the radius is completely true. In the image below we can see how the steering axis is described by an imaginary line drawn through the upper and lower ball joints. Where that line intersects with the ground is the point around which the tire rotates. The distance between this point and the centerline of the tire is called the scrub radius.
In the image above the tire is 265/70r17 and the wheel is 7.5x17 with a +15mm offset. (These drawings are to scale and depict the 4Runner suspension with enough accuracy for a theoretical discussion.) Below is the same drawing, but this time with the ever-popular 285 tire on a 7x17 wheel with a +4mm offset. Notice that as the offset decreases, the scrub radius increases.

Looking down from the top, we have the same green dashed line prescribing the steering axis. From this view it is apparent that not only is the point of the tire’s rotation on the ground not centered laterally, it’s not centered front to back. An effect of this is that the as the tire is turned left and right, the leading outboard corner and the trailing outboard corner of the tire prescribe 2 different arcs.

Okay now let’s swap out for the 285 wheel. Predictably we can see that the arc prescribed by the wider tire with the decreased offset is wider.

I included these last two drawings to impart a more complete notion of the dynamics involved. But the point is that for our purposes backspace may be disregarded. Both backspace and offset describe the position of the hub flange mounting plane in relation to the rest of the wheel. Each measurement offers information that the other does not. Backspace tells us how close to the spindle the inboard edge of the rim will be. Offset can’t do that, because it doesn’t account for the thickness of the flange. But backspace doesn’t tell us with accuracy where the centerline of the wheel will be, and so it can’t tell us where the outboard edge of the tire will be, and in the case of the 4Runner and it’s rubbing issues, that’s what we care about.

 

Yes!

 

I don’t think I appreciated that offset and backspace offer information the other does not. Thanks for a very detailed explanation. Looks like you have thought this through before. In your opinion, if I get some 17” diameter TRD Pro wheels that are 7” wide , +4 mm offset and 265/70/17 tires, will they rub on an otherwise completely stock Gen 5 ORP? I have no lift, no spacers, no trimming, no BMC. Or is it so close that it depends on the specific tire and tread depth? I am looking at the Goodyear UltraTerrain tires. Similar to Duratracs but not the same.

 

This is the most controversial question asked on this board. Will it rub. You will get many opinions on this. Some will tell you the Ultra Terrains will fit without issue. Others will say that an alignment will preclude the need for a fender trim. I’ll tell you this. When Toyota puts on the 7x17” +4mm offset rims with the stock size Nitto Terra Grapplers at the port, they trim the fender. It’s hard to tell from internet photos, but the Ultra Terrains look like they have a more aggressive lug than the Grapplers. Which would seem to make trimming even more necessary. So whatever anyone else may say, Toyota thinks trimming is necessary.

 

Makes sense to me that trimming is highly likely and I’m not wanting to go there. I really like the stock 7 spoke ORP wheels. I like the 7.5” width compared to 7” from a pinching perspective. I like the countersunk valve stems but I’ll admit I don’t know if other style wheels have that also. If I want to get a set of Ultra Terrains and have 2 sets of wheels I’ll probably just get another stock OEM 7 spoke set with TPMS installed. I need some off road tires for hunting season which is September thru December. But the remainder of the year an HT tire is fine. I’m in 4 WD 4 days per week during hunting season. Looks like getting a set of ORP wheels is fairly easy to do and at a good price.

 

I have wheels coming for my 2023 ORP. I have 2000 miles on the wheels and tires and I’m considering selling them when I have them installed next week.
What do you think they’re worth? They are in perfect new condition.

 

I would want to see pictures of the wheels after dismounting the tires to see what kind of damage (if any) was done by the tire shop. Unless you are gonna sell your wheels and tires together? I’m thinking you are replacing your factory tires too? I would only be interested in the wheels.

 

I don’t plan to dismount the tires.
I’ll post an ad and try to find someone interested in wheels and tires.

thanks
Dan

 

I picked up 5 without tires last summer for $500. I’ve seen them a little lower but they weren’t near me as well as some for a little more in the 6-650 range.