New Broncos for sale used

I get your point but this isn't exactly what I mean by a "stripped down off-roader". I just don't think they are for sale here anymore, and don't expect they ever will be. That jeep may have lack of power accessories like doors, locks, seats (which I would like if I expected a lot of water fording) and lack of AC, but if I'm not mistaken they only come with dana30 axles. That doesn't fit the "overbuilt" category - put 35s on those and try to offroad and they will probably break. To get dana44 stock, I think you have to buy a rubicon - and now you're talking about a starting price of +20k on top of that which is ridiculous.

The best option for a great offroad vehicle here is to typically buy a base model and then customize to build it into a more capable offroader for less than the top-tier optioned version. You even see mention of this in reference to the SR5s.

There are a lot of people here who have mentioned interest in something like they have available in Australia, Africa, Middle East, and/or South America. You can get them here but may be right hand drive, are typically used (and possibly abused), are expensive due to importation and because of the import, parts are usually not readily available. Would be interesting if someone offered something like that here without those issues, how well would they sell?

 

You're kind of dumb. Did you even read my posts? Go back and read them again. Maybe get your brain checked for reading comprehension problems.

 

I always seem to forget about the older Land Cruiser, lol. Probably because I actually see so few of them, even back when '80s were new. Pre-80s are basically like unicorns around where I live. I really like the wagon body style that came before the 80 series, is that the 60? If I remember correctly it's got leaf springs all the way around.

Yeah, multi mode is awesome. When I was looking for third gen I was super impressed when I learned about it. Crazy they discontinued something so versatile. Kind of funny how a 20-year-old Toyota has a better four-wheel drive system than a brand new one.

 

I agree, to an extent. But, where do we distinguish between a simple off-roader and a built rock crawler. I don't like to say it here, but that 2-door Wrangler would probably do better on technical trails with stock tires than a 4Runner on 35's.

I agree with this. I actually think the SR5 is the best platform for a more hardcore build.

It would certainly be awesome to have the option to buy a 70 series Landcruiser here. I'd have to guess that it's too much work to adapt them to US fuel economy standards, or emissions, safety...

I'm sure a handful of the people here would buy them if they were an option.

Yes, the 60 series! I almost never see those anymore. I actually don't even see that many 80's running around either. Those are both excellent platforms!

I can't remember if it was you who I heard about multi-mode from first. But, that does sound like the coolest thing!

 

Tell me how you really feel.

Okay, maybe I misunderstood something you said earlier. Would you care to tell me which part of my quote I was wrong about?

 

Nah, you can exercise some of your reading comprehension abilities.

 

I don't think it's any secret that having SFA gives better articulation and therefore better traction as a result because you can keep tires on the ground easier. Plus with the 2-door, you have a much shorter wheel base and turning radius, making it ideal for tight trails. Personally I think the 2 doors are awesome (like the FJ-40) but lack the interior space I desire. I also don't have a desire for hardcore rock crawling so I probably don't need SFA but loved it on my 04 JGC. My biggest concern with newer offroaders are the amount of electronics, which don't always play well with dust, mud, or water. When I say "stripped down" it mainly refers to something with more mechanics than electronics, which I equate to durability. I know electronics have come a long way but it makes me uneasy to see the 4runner doesn't even have an "official" water fording depth.

This is more like what I would like to see available here. But I agree, the reason they aren't is most likely due to regulations (as you stated) or that they would only sell to a very select market and not be profitable without high pricing. Such is life.

 

Crooks in my area charging a lot over MSRP

 

That... is ridiculous. If someone pays that, I doubt it would hit the used market anytime soon.

I know gas stations have been penalized in the past for price gouging - is there not something in place for dealers? 33% markup almost seems criminal.

Straying back off-topic, read an article today about someone in congress complaining about their 174k/yr salary since they used to make more in the private sector. Not saying that to start a political discussion, just to lead into the article further explaining that the majority of Americans have a salary of around 30k/yr. Sucks that an off-road oriented vehicle, built by one of the first large manufacturers of vehicles in America, now costs twice the average American's salary.

 

To be fair to the MSRP of this particular one at least, it is a Badlands.

 

I'm not familiar enough with with the trims to know what that is but I assume something along the lines of a rubicon trim for jeep - the most off road capable out of the box. I believe they are similarly priced. That just drives home my point about the off road oriented versions of vehicles being priced in the top tier with all the bells and whistles.

 

Sorry, I totally failed to say what I was trying to say there. I meant that, it really doesn't need 35's, so there's really no reason to be concerned about the axles. Unless you're looking to build a serious rock crawler, at which point you're probably going to SAS a 4runner anyway.

Yeah, I really like the size of the 70 and 80 series of. Big enough to camp in, but not too big to squeeze through a tight trail.

 

Gotcha. Yeah, if you look at any of the older offroaders like FJ-40 or land rovers, I don't think they ever came with large tires. They actually seem quite small compared to most stock tires today. My obsession with a larger tire and ground clearance comes from offroading in my younger days. In the south we had people who regularly threw 40's onto old beaters and rutted out the only trails around trying to cover the truck with mud so they could look cool cruising back through town. If you had traction you could straddle the ruts but if it rained recently and was muddy you would just slide into them and risk getting high centered.

Trying to steer this back towards on topic, I thought used car prices were coming back down? If so, wonder if there are still a lot of broncos on the market? I remember rumors of carvana going bankrupt not too long ago because they were overpaying for used cars but never saw an article that they filed for bankruptcy. Maybe they survived it afterall

 

I thought I had heard about one of those online dealers having some trouble. It seemed like they probably screwed themselves by paying too much for used vehicles and then lost their ass when the market started to cool off.

 

I figured you wouldn't want to point it out.

If I had to guess, maybe what I missed is that people who take out long term loans and overpay for vehicles are skewing prices and making vehicles less affordable. And, that is why it's relevant to this conversation.

Am I on the right track?

If so; yes, I totally agree. Cars are just too expensive altogether these days (IMO).

But, the high cost isn't necessarily due to the features you say you don't want. It's due to the market, and increased costs. You referred to the lower price of the FJ Cruiser, but what you probably didn't consider was that the FJC came with power windows, locks and AC, standard.

We can't do much about increasing manufacturing costs. But, it certainly hasn't helped that people have been telling Toyota they need to charge more for the last few years. As long as people are lining up around the block to pay MSRP+ markups (in some cases), prices are going to keep climbing.

This irritates me, also, as I might want to buy another car, someday.


So, I apologize for not connecting the dots earlier. Or, if I'm still way off base, I'm interested in hearing why. I don't deny that I tend to be disagreeable here at times. But, I try to be respectful about it. I know I'm not always right, and I usually admit it... eventually.

 

I was going to be all like

But then I read it, and the first couple lines get it, but you missed the part where I recognized that this is what the general populace wants and therefore I understand why things are the way they are. So, it's just senseless circular arguing that I already recognized.

Also, come on! A Jeep? Seriously? Do you know how many of us came here because we got burned by Fiat-Chrysler/Stellantis?

 

I agree that most folks want more vehicle than they can really afford. Heck, I'm guilty myself. And, I also agree that it probably won't change because people, in general, want instant gratification.

So, thank you for replying!

As far as the Jeep remarks! I understand. What's funny is that there's a little part of me that wants a Wrangler. Just a basic 2-door trail toy. But, the horror stories keep turning me back to the 4runner. Part of me thinks they couldn't possibly be as bad as people say, but I don't really want to find out the hard way.

 

Nothing wrong with that. Jeeps are awesome.

I wouldn't be afraid, just do a little research to ease your fears. A lot of the Jeep channels have done videos about the long-term reliability of their vehicles, and they push them quite hard. Maybe Jeep owners are just passionate enough about the fun side of the vehicles that they're willing to live with a few reliability concerns.

A friend of mine bought a JKU a few years back, and she pretty much summed it up when she said "this is the most irresponsible thing I've ever bought, and I freaking love it".

Plus if it's a trail toy, you're not going to be putting a lot of miles on it, and it's not going to be a daily.

People act like Jeeps can't make it 3 days without breaking down, yet anytime I look at them on marketplace, they're usually all well over 200k miles. I've actually been looking for a 5.9Ltd Grand Cherokee, and they're all 250k plus.

This guy here has had pretty good luck with Jeeps and doesn't seem too concerned with reliability.
https://youtu.be/jKokznz9v3s

 

This could send me down an expensive rabbit hole!

After seeing how some of the Jeep guys drive on some local trails, I could definitely see some of the issue being a result of abuse.

Regarding the Dana 30's, I think they would hold up fine with modest size tires and careful driving. I think that if they really broke as easily as some seem to think, they wouldn't be using them.

Shit. This really isn't helping.

 

Yeah, you're welcome. Grumble grumble. I look forward to the day when everyone defaults on their car loans and things start settling down. Maybe then we'd get that Land Cruiser 70 they sell in Australia. Nah, that's too much of that New Jersey weed contact high I've got going on.

Regarding the further discussion about Jeeps, getting one as a trail toy would be generally fine. Daily driver? Not a good idea. Trail toy? You could do worse, I guess.

The YJ and TJ? Yeah, fine. I'd get another TJ as a trail toy and perhaps as a backup daily driver. JK? Maybe? Though I've got to wonder about those 200,000 mile ones. They're obviously not just trail toys, and I've seriously got to wonder about the amount of money and trips to the garage that went into getting them to go that long. Though, as a trail toy, it's probably not a terrible pick. JL? Oh boy, I don't think I'd touch one of those with a ten foot pole. There have already been horror stories about those with mileage in the 10,000s or even less. I've got to wonder about the JL as a trail toy longer term. It's coming up on the time when we're going to start seeing longer term issues, but if those aforementioned short term issues are a harbinger of things to come, it'll be the old adage of a Jeep getting you there but a Toyota getting you back.

 

Dude, that Grand Cherokee's from a different era. It's not representative at all of what things are like now.

 

Last year for those was '98, right? 25 years old...and for '99 they went to the 4.7 (I had a 2000 limited with the 4.7 and it had a lot of issues before 60k miles (bought it with 47k)...I mean, unless transfer case failing, clock spring needing replacement, coil packs (at $300 a pop) and general electrical issues every time it rained are minor issues).

I know plenty of people who have had no issues with Jeep though. Plenty more with no issues with Ford. Heck I just traded an F150 with 159k miles that only ever had scheduled maintenance and an evap purge valve ($35) replaced (and that was about a month before I traded it, literally a week before I went to get a value as it was known when my 4Runner would arrive. No rattles, just super reliable.

And I'm probably setting up for failure because I expect the 4Runner to be dead nuts reliable...

 

I've been a toyota fan boy for a while now. Tacomas then 4runners, a couple land cruisers here and there.

I'm currently car shopping. And the 2019-2020 raptor is the next vehicle im looking at now. But im picky as fuck. So this is fun....

 

Raptor's an awesome truck.

I would own one in a second if I had the coin.

 

I've always wanted one. Almost bought one in 2017 but instead we bought our house. I'm also kinda glad I waited seems like the 2017/18 had some kinks. But those have been solved in the 2019+ models.

While I do enjoy the 4runner. I'm going to be spending more time in the car now(career change). So why not get something fun. Anyway we are keeping the 4runner but selling our outback.
I'm also in no hurry. It will be a Ford certified with a 100k Powertrain warranty(since its a ford) and itll red, blue or grey. Now ill just surf the internet searching

 

Yeah, ZJ was 93 to 98, the 5.9 was only available as a special edition of 98.

I like the later years of the WJ since they were the last of the solid axle Jeep SUVs. My dad has a 08-ish Dakota with a 4.7 HO with 170k and he hasn't really had any major issues with it. The motor itself has been dead nuts reliable, he's had some issue with like front suspension parts and things like that, but nothing engine related that I can remember.

Good luck with your 4Runner, I'm sure you'll be fine. I'm not a Toyota fanboy at all, but I admit that that was one of the main reasons that I went with one.

 

Wait for the supercharged V8!

 

Thats WAY outta budget.

 

^^fucking love that movie.

I set my budget at 60k for the next vehicle. And trust me I went through the whole line of trucks in that price range. Id love to get another tacoma, but their just to small for the family. There's no other trucks that interest me. And if I didn't need a truck I'd just mess around with the 4runner more.