New Broncos for sale used

I don't know about the Braptor, but there are "low mount" winch kits for the Broncos that would allow the use of all of the ACC, parking sensors and front camera.
The downside is that they are mounted below the bumper with all the issues that can bring.
There also some vendors making ACC and camera relocation kits.

 

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You just described about 50% of my Instagram feed, LMAO. Those gals are all about the dentside Ford's and squarebody Chevy's though.

 

Now that you mention it, I think they did talk about that, but the reduction in approach angle made it a non starter for them.

Maybe a receiver mounted winch would be the way to go. Just pop it in when needed.

 

So, if the 4runner was offered with no AC, no power windows or locks, and maybe a nice rubber floor for like $39,500, you'd buy it? Or, are you hoping for an unrealistic amount of savings?

No idea who Robber Barons is, and don't give a shit about Kim K.

When I think of luxury, I think of comfortable seats and a quiet cabin. I'm not sure why that would be seen as a negative.

 

I would rather see full time 4wd as an option on every sub model, but I can see the appeal here.

This actually seems pretty cool also, so I could see them offering it for the off-road trims.

I suppose it is. But, if you're doing stuff that requires a steel bumper regularly, you're probably going to want a winch.

They already are competitive.

I've already said that I'd love to see them make the next generation more off-road friendly. I just don't think they need to run out and try to mimic Ford.

Why is it that any time an SUV is nice, it's a soccer mom vehicle? Do people hate being comfortable? I'm not sure what the downside is of having a nice vehicle. Edit: I just saw your other post. Agreed, why not have the best of both worlds?

Look at the 80 series LC. It's luxury on the inside, badass 4x4 on the outside. Do leather seats and AC make it less capable somehow?

 

I just saw this. This is what I'm saying. I'd rather have a badass 4×4 that's also comfortable to drive, than some stripped down shitbox.

 

I was gonna say, re your 80 comment, that I'm in no way against that. 100% agree, I absolutely refuse to drive any vehicle without working AC, haha. That's why I'm not that excited about soft tops. I like most modern features with the exception of start/stop and controls being accessed only by screens.

I just mean soccer mom in regards to trying to make it a vehicle for everyone. Focusing on things such as keeping the step in height low and offering only quiet tires. When the 4R first came out, it was the first Toyota SUV, so the first few gens had to be everything. The 5th and 6th gen do not.

One more thing I forgot about the steel bumper - the end caps are removable for more clearance. Kind of like doing a viper cut, but not permanent.

Auto 4wd vs full-time: either is better than what we get now. I'm fine with full-time as long as there is still a RWD option. I'm wondering if the auto-4wd isn't just a matter of a few sensors and some software, vs a different t-case for full-time.

Tundra & Sequoia don't have it, so chances are low 4R will get it. Pretty sad, GM had been offering it on its big SUVs for 20 years now.

 

Agreed that we don't need a low step in height, etc. They can always offer running boards for those who want them.

The Landcruiser was around long before the 4runner. But, I do agree that it doesn't need to appeal to everyone, since we have the Highlander for people who want something lower to the ground.

They should bring back multi-mode!

Honestly, though, I'd be Ok with full time four-wheel drive. Of course, the downside is that it's harder to do donuts.

 

Only the Modular bumper has removable ends, the Capable does not. OTOH, the Capable has fog lights and a dash switch for them while Modular does not.

The Bronco AWD is clutch/sensor based. The Bronco can have the Advanced transfer case that offers AWD, 2H, 4H and 4Low or a traditional transfer case with 2H, 4H and 4Low.

The AWD of the Advanced transfer case is great for where I live as we get ice storms that leave the roads with patches of ice between stretches of wet and dry as the temps warm up.

 

Thank you for the clarification!!

 

The problem with "stripped down" 4Runner with straight axles, manual hubs, manual trans, ect.......is that it would turn out to be just as expensive as a regular 4Runner. Maybe even more expensive.

It's cheaper for Toyota to offer an automatic trans and independent front suspension on everything rather than investing in all these different parts and tooling to have multiple options. You give the public that choice with similar price points that and the vast majority pick the one with creature comforts by a huge margin.

It's nice to have a bunch of options on the Bronco, but look at all the production problems they're running into at the moment. I bet they drastically reduce those options at some point to help simplify and speed up production.

 

See i prefer the basics. All that heated crap and sensory RUINS the offroad experience....

Think of it like this. Back in the day you had less options for 4x4s, so less people went offroad and exploring, with more and more vehicle traffic on trails it destroys the terrain. Also makes less enjoyable when there is traffic on the trails. I'm mean this whole overlanding trend. Take a tent, sleep on the ground, and enjoy the simplicity of nature! You don't need to take the kitchen sink, fridge, shower, generator, etc etc.

This is clearly just my opinion.

 

Nothing wrong with that, in a way I get your point.

I guess it depends whether you're talking DD or trail rig.

For a dedicated trail rig, yes, less is more. For my DD that does 400 pavement miles/week, I want the comforts.

Jeep still makes exactly what you want, or one could definitely build a classic 4x4 for way less than a basic new 4x4.

I'm partial to these:. Only creature comfort is heat and power steering, and legend has it that because the 6.2 diesel has no electronics, they're EMP proof.

 

Toyota still makes bare bones 4x4s. They just aren't offered in the US. The aussies get all the good toyotas.

https://www.toyota.com.au/landcruiser-70

Even comes with a 4.5l v8 turbo diesel! Why don't they offer them here? Cause we are a much of wussies that need all the comforts of home in our vehicles.

Sorry guys I got off topic....

 

Modular is definitely available with the V6, it was on my build sheet for the Wildtrak (which only comes with the V6 and 35's)

the winch also blocks the front camera....pretty sure there's a relocate kit available from someone though...

 

If you add the winch to the Modular bumper Ford only allows this with the 4cyl.
I've not heard the reasoning, weight, less airflow affecting cooling ??? Don't know.

Maybe next year.

 

Gotcha, I did not add the winch to my build. There are a handful of oddities as to what addons can be used with what components.

 

Don't forget that Ford had a lot of issues with the early removable rooves (roofs?) on the new Broncos around leaking and wind noise. I'd love to see a nice panoramic sunroof on a 4Runner to bridge the gap and keep the interior of the vehicle still isolated from the world when you've got the windows up.

In my dream 4Runner replacement, I'd appreciate ~25% more power and 10 to 25% more MPGs regardless of cylinder count. Higher resolution cameras as well as some more fancy off-roading features such as more modes (ala GOAT mode) to keep the truck relevant and modern as well would be nice to see. I don't have a real lust for 35" tires as I feel the 4Runner was/is not meant to be as extreme of an off-roader as a Wrangler/Bronco although some clearance to toss 33s on would be much appreciated.

 

I definitely agree that it sucks when you try to get away from civilization and there's traffic. But, others aren't going to stop showing up just because I don't have power windows.

Also, not everyone can afford multiple vehicles, so it's nice to have a vehicle that's good at everything. I'd love to have something like a Willy's for a trail toy, but that would just be another money pit.

I'd be all for a simple drivetrain. I'd gladly trade MTS and Mall Control for a front locker. I think they're cool features, but I think a front locker would be more useful for me.

 

I don't think creature comforts would limit the number of people out on the trails. People aren't out there because their power windows and heated steering wheels allowed them to be.

The crowds have more to do with things like Instagram IMO. There is so much more exposure to cool things (like off-roading) and cool places (like the middle of the wilderness) than ever before and a lot of people want that experience.

 

Considering how the 4Runner starts at $39,555 looking at Toyota USA's website right now, no. Maybe like $34,000. Of course part of that would be the removal of even more stuff. Hard plastic arm rests, for one. I don't like the soft ones. I'm in an off roader. Why are my elbows not getting chafed? I used to have rugged elbows. Now I have pansy elbows. Also remove all of that foam insulation stuff. I don't care about that. Make the seats more basic. No power seat crap. Oh yeah, no power mirrors. I want one of those weird mechanical Nintendo 64 analog stick things to control my mirrors. I don't care how annoying it is to use. I'm not going to be using it very much. Some other things. I don't know.

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=robber+baron

You can pay for that stuff if you want to. And I'll look at those European badges and think to myself "here's someone with more money than sense".

Anyway, this has been argued in circles here. I get why the car manufacturers keep on making vehicles this way. The general populace is dumber than a bag of rocks and has driven up the average car price to something like $50,000 or something stupid while overextending themselves waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far in order to afford these luxury boxes. Hopefully this will come to a head in the next couple years with more and more people defaulting and maybe we'll start seeing more of these stripped down vehicles again. Actual base models. Hopefully an actual stripped down rugged off roader. Hopefully some decent trucks and not these bloated clown cars we see on the roads these days. (And I know, different regulations have driven the size of trucks up and up, blah blah blah, but the dumber than a bag of rocks general populace kept on going bigger to start with necessitating new regulations.)

 

The SR5 4×4 starts at $41,430. $34K??? LMAO!

What European badges are you talking about?

And why do you think that people who wants nice vehicles have more money than sense?

We don't have stripped down vehicles anymore because almost nobody wants them. Also, it's probably cheaper to put power windows, locks, mirrors, etc in every trim than to have to design and manufacturer 2 different versions of everything.

 

LMAO yourself. I'm not buying that going stripped down would save only a couple thousand dollars. (In ideal circumstances.)

The usual suspects for Europe. Benz, BMW, Land Rover, etc.

Because more and more people are overextending themselves to afford them. And in a lot of circumstances, they don't have the dollars to begin with.

Gotta agree with you on that last point, and that's where the cultural shift is going to have to happen.

 

Base price on a Bronco 2dr 32,295.
Add the Sasquatch package and it is 40k.

4cyl, manual, lockers f/r, 4.70 gears, lift, upgraded front axle and beadlock capable wheels with 35's.

Add about $2500 more for the 4 door.

*price before destination and other fees.

That sounds like a heck of deal.

 

So, you don't believe that adding options increases production costs?

Why does there have to be a cultural shift? Because a handful of people don't want nice things?

There are affordable vehicles out there. People can choose to buy what's affordable, or buy what they want.

Very few people want stripped down vehicles, so why should manufacturers spend extra money to produce them?

 

Yeah, I priced it out a couple years ago. Even comparing the base two door with a 6 cylinder to the SR5 4Runner is a good value proposition. While that's not apples to apples of vehicles, it's close enough for me that I'd seriously consider it. Especially since I'd be more inclined to go with a two door anyway. I loved having my old Wrangler TJ even though it was one of those archaic stripped down (maybe not 100% stripped down but it wasn't optioned out by any means) vehicles that don't really exist anymore. It was small and nimble. It fit anywhere. Every time I drive my 2020 SR5, I swear Sir Mix-A-Lot is riding along with me.

I'd go with the 6 cylinder because I bet it'll hold up better long term than the 4 cylinder. I know they have those valve problems, but I bet they won't soon or have already stopped having them.

 

You can still buy a basic Wrangler..

 

It's 100% that me and a handful of other people don't want nice things. People like me are fed up with other people thinking they're royalty getting Benzes when they should be driving Kia Rios because that's what their financial situation calls for. So they go for 84 month loans that they're going to be under water with by month 40. These people should be 100% required to change their ways for the rest of us that want actually capable, actually not stupidly expensive, dependable transportation. These people are dregs on society and should be beaten into submission with Singapore canes.

I'm being facetious with some of the above. And it carries into the other points you're making. Like the other affordable vehicles. Yeah, there are affordable vehicles. But so much of it has been homogenized into mommy mobiles. And I get it. Like these people who think they're royalty, you've got another extremely large contingent of people that have pushed the market into "crossover" vehicles. I get why they exist. I don't like them, but I get it.

I get that hard plastic arm rests isn't going to save a person like me a whole heck of a lot of money in the current climate. Yes, they're cheaper than what's there now, but you've got to be able to do volume in order to get real savings. I get that Toyota's not going to see enough volume on them that there's going to be much cost savings over a large number of vehicles sold with them because they're not going to be selling a lot of them. That's why the hard plastic arm rests wouldn't get a 4Runner down to $34,000 in the current culture, and that's why I say that we're arguing in circles and have been for eons every time this subject comes up on these forums. I'm still going to bemoan the current state of things, though.

I'm not too sad that I spent a bunch of money on a 4Runner one month before the pandemic hit. It's going to be dependable with minimal repairs for at least the next decade, potentially two decades, and maybe even more decades than that. In the long run, I'm going to save money compared to my previous vehicle. I still would've rather been able to have gotten a 4Runner for less money with more basic seats, more basic interior stuff, more basic sound, more basic gauge cluster (yes, even more basic than it currently is), no connected services hardware at all, less insulation, no auto high beams, no windshield wiper heater, no power mirrors, and a bunch of other things that I'm not thinking of right now and it would've been economically feasible for Toyota to offer it for $34,000. Maybe even less. The FJ Cruiser started out a lot lower, though that wouldn't be 100% of an equal comparison. They do largely share the same drivetrain, though, which was one of the more important things that I wanted out of whatever Toyota SUV that I was going to buy.

 

Buy a Fiat-Chrysler/Stellantis? Are you new here? Get out of here

 

What does this have to do with anything?

Lol. So, you really think Toyota would actually save that much money by complicating their production line and developing more options for the 4runner?

Oh, right. I must be crazy.

Meanwhile, it makes perfect sense to talk about how much you miss your old Jeep, but you refuse to buy a new Jeep, and you're complaining that the 4Runner isn't more like your old Jeep.