New Broncos for sale used

That's just a generalization. Plenty of people buy Toyota's and trade them in every few years, and plenty of people hang onto other makes long term.

"Toyota" doesn't automatically mean longevity, and "not-a-Toyota" doesn't mean it's going to self destruct after a few years.

I also have a 16 year old Volvo and a 23 year old Pontiac, my cousin dailies a 30 year old F250, and I arguably see more 90s Jeep's on the road than I do Toyotas. Parked next to my 4R at work is a first gen CRV with 300k miles on it, and down the row from that is a '99-ish Dodge Dakota.

A friend of mine just got rid of her 2013 RAV4 because even after a transmission replacement at only 150k, it still wasn't right.

 

Of course it is a generalization. Did you miss the smiley?

I didn't mention Volvo, Pontiac, Jeep or Honda...

I have a 35 year Bronco II with an odometer that has rolled over at least once that still runs fine, but does that prove that Bronco II's are long lasting? Nope. It's had the engine and trans replaced at least once, and the trans rebuilt after that.

 

Someone ought to tell them that over on the Bronco forum, several have claimed that they got the $2500 while only removing one of those items (because very few orders have all 3).

BadSquatch looks the same as any other Sasquatch from the outside...rather have a Wildtrak though, beefier steering rack and better suspension...you lose the electronic disconnect on the swaybar though (and washout interior).

I do agree about the next gen 4R though, heck, I still think Ford ought to do a fixed steel roof version of the Bronco...they could still stable it under the Bronco name (heck if an escape with a different body and a few suspension / drivetrain tweaks can be called a Bronco Sport, why not)...

 

Yes. If they have any of three, they have to remove them (except for 2 door hardtop).

 

What does the Bronco have that the 4Runner needs to have?

I'd love to see a manual option, but it's 99% not happening.

A better crawl gear would be nice.

35's from the factory? I don't think that's going to happen.

Turbo V6? Also doubtful. Plus, the incoming turbo 4 has way more usable torque than the 1GR.

OTOH, I actually like the idea of a removable hard top option. I don't know if I would actually use it, but it would be cool to have the choice.

Edit: Don't get me wrong; I would love to see Toyota bring a truly badass 4x4 to the US.

 

All I can say... is this bronco is FUN!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJHC3hN_gS4&t=232s

Wife still wants a 4 Runner though!

 

Great video of the Braptor in action...
(Don't be fooled by the clickbait-y thumbnail, she's an amazing driver & spotter)

https://youtu.be/anunnCJXBSw

 

Damn, she's hot af. Reading this thread reminded me that my '21 4 Runner is the first vehicle I've ever owned (for myself) that isn't a pickup. '76 Silverado, '78 F-150, '81 F-150 ('78 was stolen), '90 Mazda, 2001 TRD Tacoma Prerunner (my son still drives that one), 2003 SR-5 Prerunner (bought with 80K in 2010), and 2015 F-150. I can't see myself ever driving a pickup again but who knows?

 

[QUOTE="Thatbassguy, post: 423425, member: 9314"]What does the Bronco have that the 4Runner needs to have?

I'd love to see a manual option, but it's 99% not happening.

A better crawl gear would be nice.

35's from the factory? I don't think that's going to happen.

Turbo V6? Also doubtful. Plus, the incoming turbo 4 has way more usable torque than the 1GR.

OTOH, I actually like the idea of a removable hard top option. I don't know if I would actually use it, but it would be cool to have the choice.

Edit: Don't get me wrong; I would love to see Toyota bring a truly badass 4x4 to the US.[/QUOTE]

Not sure I get what your point is (bolded). I would think if Toyota wants to be competitive in the off-road market they would want to add most of them.

Here's a list (off the top of my head) of Bronco/Sasquatch features. Which ones would you NOT want from Toyota? This list reads like an off-roader's wish list.

Disconnectable front sway bar
4:70 axle ratio
Front & rear locking diffs
8 speed auto
Available 7 speed manual with crawler gear (4cyl only)
69:1 crawl ratio (auto) aprox
95:1 crawl ratio (manual) aprox
Turbo 4cyl
Available turbo V6
35" tires
Available steel front bumper
removable top & doors
Auto 4wd
Turn assist

The only ones among that list I don't care too much about is the 7 speed and removable roof. I do think a removable roof is cool, but I'd rather have a fixed roof on a DD. If I lived where the weather was consistently nice I'd maybe reconsider.

Everything else would be AWESOME on a 4R. I can live without the 6cyl if we get a torquey 4cyl, but I really would like to see an 8 speed and a better crawl ratio. The 4Rs is something like 35:1, not great at all.

Even non-Squatch Broncos can be had with 285/70s, which is great. No reason at least a 33 shouldn't be able to fit a stock gen 6 4R.

If your point is that Toyota won't give us any of those features because they're typically about as exciting as low-fat unflavored yogurt, well then I guess I'd have to agree, haha.

 

Wanting things and saying that the 4Runner has to have them are different conversations.

I assume the next generation is going to have better axl ratios than the current, because we're probably going to have at least a six or eight speed transmission.

We have rear lockers. Front lockers sound awesome, but I also understand why Toyota might not want to put them in.

We already know the automatic will have more gears. Manual option is another thing that would be cool but probably isn't happening.

I mentioned a better crawl gear in my earlier post.

We already know we're getting a turbo 4. Turbo 6 would be fun, but really not a necessity.

35's look great, but most of us don't even need 33's.

Does the Bronco's steel bumper have a built-in mounting plate for a winch? Otherwise, it's pretty worthless in my opinion. (Edit: I see that there are options for a winch mount. Nice!)

Removable top definitely sounds cool.

Is auto four-wheel drive anything like full time four-wheel drive?

I'm not sure what "turn assist" is.

This is part of what I was saying. I really hope that they lean more towards the off-road crowd than the soccer mom crowd with the next generation. But, I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

It might be nice if Toyota offered a version of the 4R similar to today's, plus a more off-road focused, stripped version. People on here who want the next 4Runner to be an off-road beast first are missing the marketing and sales side of things, I think. People won't buy Toyota 'Jeeps' right now because they currently don't see that coming from Toyota. Warm them up to the idea by offering two or three tiers of capability on the next 4R (more aggressive tier differences than today), and maybe you can split off a new off-road focused line in a few years. But for now, the number of 4Runners sold in a year limits the number of variants they can offer and still be profitable.

 

There's two versions of the steel bumper, Capable and Modular. Ford offers a factory winch for the Modular, I think this is only available with the 4cyl.
There are multiple aftermarket winch mounts for both bumpers, low and high mount.

 

That's actually pretty cool, then!

 

I agree with this, except that I don't see why the off-road focused trim would need to be stripped down. Why not have an improvement on the balance of comfort and capability we have now? They did it with the Landcruiser for a long time.

 

Because things are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too fancy even on a base model Corolla these days. Scratch that, a base model Kia Rio.

 

What's too fancy, specifically?

Personally, I don't see how being comfortable would negatively impact my off-road experience.

 

I lol'd at being "comfortable" offroad.

 

I have Ford to thank for becoming a Toyota enthusiast. We owned a Ford Windstar with the infamous 3.8l known for head gasket problems. At 61,000 miles ours blew a head gasket. I was sure that the service manager would go to bat for us to get the repair covered, especially when he saw that we changed the oil faithfully every 3,000 miles. Instead, he looked at me and said, “There is nothing we can do for you sir.”

Sold that van and went straight to a regional Toyota dealer and bought a brand new Sienna. Never looked back.

 

We have nice seats, AC, power everything, etc. Seems pretty nice to me.

I guess I'm wondering what "fancy" things are bothering people.

 

I think the allure of a "stripped down" off-road based vehicle is the reduction in cost. If you go back in time there were hand rolled windows, manual hubs, manual transmissions, etc. on older vehicles that helped keep costs down. Present day, there are electronics that drive everything; which don't always play well with dust, water, and other things that equate to ruggedness. The idea of a cheap (analog vs electronic), rugged/reliable/mechanically overbuilt (fewer weak points), off-road focused vehicle is exciting to some North Americans because there is nothing like that available anymore. Maybe it's gov't regulations? Maybe it's market driven (soccer moms)? Maybe it's where the money is at (they probably wouldn't sell boatloads)? The fact there is nothing like that available anymore is what drives the envy in my opinion. If I had the time and money, I'd like to develop something like that but the sad fact is it isn't being done because you'd probably sell relatively few to a select market and would go out of business.

There are companies that rebuild old iconic vehicles (I think there is/was a company named ICON in California ironically) from the frame up with V8s and whatever you want, but even 10 years ago they started at over 100k. Would be interesting if someone could develop, pass gov't regulations, manufacture and sell a bare bones 4WD vehicle that is purpose built with no frills for an affordable price and still make enough money to stay in business.

Today's "off-road focused" vehicles from all manufacturers are the top tier, highest priced options with all the bells and whistles - which is the opposite of what some people want. Just look at the TRD PRO.

 

The 4runner is probably the best mix between DD and trail rig, which is why they still sell so many. I think what people would like is a cheap, reliable alternative to a side-by-side (that is road legal) and have an EV, hybrid, whatever for a DD. Unfortunately, like my previous post indicated, the "off-road" focused vehicles available here are the most expensive, top tier priced vehicles and you can't afford to buy one as a trail toy and still have a 2nd vehicle for practical purposes.

 

I could sort of understand it if there was any reason to believe that it would actually be less expensive. But, I don't see the appeal of manual everything (except for manual transmission; this I can understand) otherwise.

Given the choice between a highly capable, luxurious vehicle and a highly capable vehicle with no creature comforts, I'll take being comfortable. And, as you alluded to, so would most people. Which is probably why Toyota doesn't make them for the US market.

Btw, one doesn't have to be a soccer mom to want a nice vehicle.

I get what you're saying here. It's probably just not possible to make a cheap, road legal 4×4 anymore. Some of those UTV's cost almost as much as a 4Runner!

I think, if anyone wants a simple, basic 4×4, their best option is to buy an older Wrangler or Landcruiser, Suzuki, etc.

I don't see any reason to expect a cheap, capable vehicle to hit the US market anytime soon. So, hearing people talk about it is about the same as hearing people say that Toyota should put a V8 in the next generation 4runner. Yes, it would be cool; but it isn't happening.

 

You stop it with the logic and reason. I want a V8, 50 MPG, off road tank that costs 20k and don't tell me to go pound sand!

 

Exactly this! I'd rather pay less money to not have all of this!

 

Also all of this! This is what I want!

 

If you put the word luxury in front of something, it makes me picture robber barons and Kim Kardashian, it makes me want to not be associated with it, and it makes me have to barf.

A country girl next door busting out of her plaid shirt and a little bit of buttcheek showing through her torn jeans is way more attractive to me.

 

THIS

Everyone talks about this "stripped" down off-roader, yet sales numbers would be miniscule.

Jeep offers this, btw. One can still buy a soft top manual Wrangler with no AC and hand crank windows. I have to imagine the take rate for this is extremely low.

Comfort features and off-road capability don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I want comfy heated seats, heated steering wheel, etc in my vehicle. I even like blind spot monitoring as well.

 

Thanks for adding that. I forgot to mention the winch capable part in my earlier post.

I think certain models are not compatible though. I remember Lite Brite mentioned in one of their vids that since the Braptor has all the features, the winch blocks the adaptive cruise control or something to that effect and they were going to do without the winch till a solution is available.

 

@Thatbassguy

From what I understand, Auto 4wd is a setting that allows the front axle to engage and disengage automatically based on road conditions. Traditional 4Hi is also a setting.

IMO I think this is a great option for areas with inclement weather. Judging by how frequently the "when do I use 4wd" questions pop up here, this would be a welcome addition to the 4R.

"Turn assist" is activated via a dash button and applies the brakes to the inside rear tire when making a sharp turn. The vehicle almost pivots on that locked wheel. The 200 series LC has something similar.

Winch or not, a steel bumper is more durable than painted plastic, no? It's also held on by more than clips and won't get ripped off if dragged on rocks. Plus IMO it looks better.

I get your need vs want statement, however if Toyota WANTS to be competitive in the off-road segment, they NEED to add a lot of these features.

As far as buyers go, how many Americans buy only the car they "need" and not what they want? If they did that, 75% of 4R owners would be driving Highlanders or Siennas.

Toyota makes enough SUVs now the 4R doesn't need to try to be the soccer mom friendly one. RAV4, Highlander, Highlander XL (or whatever it's going to be called) suit that market just fine.

Even if the 4R "Rubicon" is only a halo model, it gets people excited about the brand. For those that don't need them, they can have a less off-road oriented model lineup, like Wrangler and Bronco have.

Bronco offers quite a few levels actually. I like that you can get a Bronco with 33's, steel wheels, and rear locker.

Edit: I also get that Toyota doesn't really try that hard to cater to enthusiasts, and they have enough customers that buy simply because it's a Toyota, so they probably will sell plenty either way.

I just see the lackluster reviews of the Tundra and Sequoia, I want better for the 4R.