New Broncos for sale used

Well, you kind of have to flog the 4.0 like you stole it to pass or merge on the highway (esp uphill), as opposed to a more powerful V8 not needing to work so hard. Yet people think the 4.0s are bulletproof, so....

 

Ehh yeah diesels!

I just don't see how a turbo 4 will improve the new generation of 4runner, mpg? Power?

Look at the new bronco. The 2.3t 7spd in the 4dr bronco isn't exactly powerful. Even with the 4.88 or whatever gears it has, its a dog. Also the mpg is the same as the 4r.

So whats toyota going to do different? Its sure an interesting topic, with the new tacoma coming out and all...

Id put in the turbo diesel from the aussie land cruiser in it. Now that would be fucking amazing.

 

Dude you come off like you know everything. Like you know more about the differentials than East Coast Gear Supply, yet you had yours replaced under warranty. Let’s hear what you do when you’re out of warranty. I’m pretty confident in my mechanic skills that I’ve forgotten more than you’ll ever know so STFU.

 

Yeah I run a K2500 Suburban Diesel with 236K miles on it and I do all the work on it.

 

Not really, it has more than enough power for its intended use. Sounds like you should have bought a sports car.

 

It's going to have a lot more torque, and peak under 2000 RPM's. I'm sure MPG's will be heavily dependent on driving style.

I have a buddy with a turbo 2.3 Ranger and it seems to have plenty of power.

I agree that the turbo diesel option would be fantastic. But, it's not happening, so I'm hoping for the best with the turbo 4. If it's a flop, I'll just keep this one.

You brought some old news that's been discussed already to this thread, and then you state some generic fact as if it's new information. What kind of response did you expect?

Also, what does me getting mine replaced under warranty have to do with anything? If it fails again, I'll probably put in the ECGS bushing. So what?

I'm sure ECGS is great at regearing differentials, and whatever else they do. But, the fact is that many 4Runners have had needle bearing failures at stock height. So, to say that it's caused by lift is completely inaccurate. I understand that lift can accelerate or exacerbate the problem, but it isn't the actual cause.

And, now, without knowing shit about me, you're telling me that I'll never know as much about wrenching on cars as you. What a ridiculous thing to say!

And then you close by telling me to shut the fuck up. Classy.

 

I actually agree with this, to an extent. You do have to really hammer down to pass and merge on the freeway. But, I don't mind doing it.

I also think the granny gears aren't doing us any favors in the performance department. I think the 4.0 would be better if we had a 6 or 8 speed transmission and 4.10's.

But, the new turbo 4, if it ends up being reliable, will be a better truck engine.

 

I wouldn't stay more gears, just because tacomas have a major gear hunting issue with the 6sp automatic.

BUT the gear ratio! Maybe 4.10 even 430. That would be a game changer.

 

That's true about the Tacos. I think the hunting is a result of the ECU and crummy shift logic. But, I agree that it could be an issue. I also think the 3.5 makes less low end torque in its stock form.

I definitely agree that the rear end gears alone would probably make a huge difference. I can definitely see why regearing is popular for those with oversized tires. When I drive with the 295's and the roof rack, I don't even bother putting it in drive. S4 all day, pretty much. I should really regear.

 

“Many have 4Runner have had needle bearing failures at stock height.”

Provide the data, not just anecdotal posts on an Internet forum.

Your knowledge on this subject is limited to your warranty repair and anecdotal internet posts. You really don’t know much at all and it shows.

 

Well, if you haven't yet. TUNE your 4runner! Regearing for heavy ass 295s is probably necessary though.

 

Some "data" is right in the thread you're referring to.

Also, if you haven't been paying attention, it's a known defect in the design of the differential. That defect isn't caused by lift. If it actually was, Toyota wouldn't be putting in free differentials for people with bad needle bearings.

I can see where the first part of your username comes from.

 

I've been considering it. I'm kind of at a point where I want to either go all out in a few years, or trade it for something more practical for a daily and get something older to beat up in the woods.

So, I'm trying my best not to spend any more money on it right now.

Are you tuned? If so, which tune? IIRC, there are a few different tunes available.

 

The fact that you have to lock it out of top gear kind of proves my point that it really doesn't have enough power, doesn't it? Lol Anyway, yeah, you definitely (ideally) need to re gear. If you can't use your top gear, then your gearing is inadequate. The stock 373 gears are barely adequate for the stock size tires as it is. My old ZJ came stock with 373 gears, and factory tire size was about 28 inches tall.

So recently I drove my sister's WK2 Grand Cherokee, it has the 3.6L and 8-speed auto. That thing felt like a rocket, I got on the highway and was doing almost 80 miles an hour before I knew it (which let's be honest, does not happen in the 4Runner) I wasn't even trying to go fast, I was actually taking it easy because I was trying to diagnose a noise she thought she heard. Anyway, I couldn't find any noise, and the thing was WAY smoother than the 4Runner. The 3.6 makes pretty comparative power to the 4.0, I think the transmission gearing and the throttle programming must make the difference.. I'd love to feel what an 8-speed behind the 4.0 would feel like.

I'm curious to what the ratios are. 6 gears aren't a lot anymore, so that's actually part of the problem too. Maybe that 6-speed auto would have been more impressive if it came out in the second gen Tacoma as opposed to the third. The other is that this engine makes very little low end torque, yet all the programming is trying to keep it at the lowest possible RPM for fuel economy. Like Bassguy said, that's the great thing about these newer turbo motors, they can be tuned to make torque at a low RPM. That's what's really important, all these peak HP numbers look good on paper, but they're fairly meaningless in the real world. Torque is where it's at.

 

I won't say that I wouldn't enjoy more low end torque, but I don't think my situation really supports that argument.

I'm driving on tires that are about 6-7% larger, and 20-25# heavier than stock size SL tires. I also have a roof rack, and about 500 - 600# of constant extra weight on top of whatever I'm bringing camping.

OTOH, the fact that it has no trouble maintaining speed in S4 could actually prove that the gearing is a bigger issue than the power.

I felt like it was at the very least sufficient when it was stock. And, I was actually impressed with the passing power. But, I've never been afraid to put the pedal to the boards.

All of that said, I do enjoy the V8 in my work Chevy. And, I do look forward to seeing how the turbo 4 works out.

Agreed. I really should, but I'm having thoughts about getting a different trail rig. I'm just leaving it alone for now, as best I can.

 

@Thatbassguy maybe that's my problem, I've never owned a vehicle that I've had to mat the gas pedal so often, it just feels unnatural to me, like I'm beating on it.

 

I've never owned anything that was actually fast, so I'm just accustomed to redlining my vehicles regularly.

And, I still floor it in the Chevy when I need to get around someone. I just have to watch the speedo more closely.

I'm curious just how bad the 4Runner is in the aerodynamics department. I notice that mine can actually maintain speed in 5th better at 55-65 than it can at 75-80. I have to assume that wind resistance is a big factor. I wonder if they'll improve this on the 6th gen as well? It seems like it would be ideal, in order to get the most out of the new drivetrain.

 

Back on track. Ford has so many issues keeping up with the "Sasquatch" package (I mean, factory 35's...) that they've offered $2500 for customers who have ordered it to drop it (which applies to the entire "Wildtrak" trim level which includes Sasquatch standard). I had a deposit to order a Bronco, put it down in July of 2022 when order banks were supposed to open in August. Then Ford pushed that to September, then said September was only for current order holders and reservations to convert to a MY23 order...order banks are still not open for customer orders. Dealers can order "dealer stock" and are using those for customers (they are not supposed to) but are limited to lower trim levels and packages. Someone said they didn't understand why there are so many used Broncos for sale...well, they're selling used for over MSRP....its almost like the TRD Pro 4Runners except every model Bronco is selling absurdly high.

I pulled back my deposit in October and dropped it on a 4Runner instead. Was told 3-5 months because I did not care what color. Picked it up last Saturday, black TRD ORP, swapped Toyo AT3's before picking it up. Looking at a dobinson's lift and probably some FN wheels but need steps or sliders first...and a few minor cosmetic things like bug shield and ventshades...

And for those saying the Bronco gets the same mpg as the 4Runner...sure, a 4 door V6 Bronco on 35's gets the same mpg as the 4Runner on 32's while having more power and way more torque. I get that this is a 4Runner forum but shitting on something just because it's not a 4Runner when you have no understanding of what you're shitting on is just dumb and makes you look like an ignorant fanboy. I'm all in on the 4Runner but I understand and respect the capabilities and benefits of other vehicles. To be honest, I think Ford should offer a fixed roof version of the Bronco...

 

It's drop the hardtop (unless 2door), Sasquatch and Lux package from your order to get the $2500. Keep any of them and you are not getting the $2500 with it being implied you won't get your Bronco in model year '23. If you don't and your Bronco is not built in model year '23, your order will be cancelled and you will lose price protection.

Those early reservation holders are getting raw dogged.

 

From the letter I saw posted, it is Sasquatch, Lux or hardtop...all 3 items are constrained so if you have an order with any one of them and change it you can get the $2500. At this point, I don't think order banks are going to open for new customer orders until June/July and that will be for MY24.

On a side note, I'm really liking the 4Runner but it definitely is an adjustment getting used to so much less power than my truck had. 100hp less in a vehicle that weighs about the same amount is a noticeable difference...but I knew that going in so...

 

One of the Ford reps cleared that up, it's all three except for the 2 Door that can have the hardtop.

 

The bronco is a fine vehicle. It's very tasteful imo. It even comes in manual which is awesome and its properly geared. The 35s are overkill for 90% of the people that buy it.

But ford designed the goodyear terriroty 3157017 tire that comes on the bronco its 10+ lighter then another 315. A reason why the gas mileage and performance is pretty good with 35s.

Bronco
315 70 17 goodyear territory c rated -54lbs

Raptor(f150)
315 70 17 bfg ko2 crated 62-64lbs

 

I was a day 2 reservation. Dropped it when they kept pushing delivery back. And that was way before the hard top was eliminated and all the other failures Ford was responsible for. But it all worked out. I love my 4 Runner.

 

I was behind a bronco raptor on my way home the other day - it looked like a bow-legged spider crawling down the road. Ended up turning into my neighborhood so they must live down the street. I've seen several in the neighborhood and most look pretty good but the raptor looked hideous from behind.

At the end of the day it's a new vehicle (problems not worked out), it probably has tons of electronic gizmos and doohickeys (as all new vehicles do), and it's a Ford (used to drive a 96 explorer, wasn't a fan of the 4wd system or durability). But, who here can really say they aren't drooling over the styling (for some trims), increased power, manual option, better MPGs, and the ability to easily fit 35s when compared to the 4runner? I bought my 4runner to drive until the wheels fall off and still plan to do so but hope toyota tries to compete so when the wheels do fall off I have an even better 4runner to jump into.

 

Me. I can. They're ugly. The more I look at them, the less I like them. At first, I thought it was just the headlights and the ghetto looking fender flares. But, it's the whole thing.

I do like some of the features you mentioned, though.

The next 4Runner should have better power and fuel economy. Hopefully Toyota doesn't make it ugly.

 

Gosh you guys are harsh on each other! I also see a lot of entrenched positions "I never drove anything but V8s in my life, I6s and 4s suck" or "The 1GR is gods gift to engines how dare you question it"


Variety is the spice of life. In my days Ive driven everything from a 1955 Chevy with 3 on the tree to a 80s vintage F250 with a 4 speed and rock crusher first gear, to Miatas and Corvettes. M3s, S4s, Integras... but also Suburbans, F150s/250s, Tundras,Tacomas, Suburbans full size vans and even a few box trucks. Big V8s, small turbo engines, subaru boxers, straight 6 BMWs, and Honda VTEC motors that revved to 8000rpm. 4 wheel drives with manual locking hubs, all wheel drive Subaru rally monsters, FWD, RWD. 4 5 and 6 speed manuals and automatics ranging from old 3sp GM turbo hydramatics to modern Japanse and European cars with 8-10 speed ZF boxes. My smallest car ever was an 1800lb 1982 Honda with 72hp... biggest thing I ever drove was a 26ft UHaul. Also a few hybrids and a model 3 electric along the way.

Point is - don't box yourself in and there is no universal "right" answer. Yeah the 1GR is old school but it is reliable; and while not fast its more than adequate for the 4Runners intended environment and far from the slowest thing out there.

Its also true that industry CAN design small high revving heavily loaded engines to be reliable. Honda 4 cylinder mills live a hard life and they all go 200k+ without breaking a swat. Plus modern turbos are nothing like the bad old days of the 80s. Materials are far better and with modern direct injection and electronic ignition they can control knock on a cylinder by cylinder basis and don't have to fall back on low base compression ratios and super rich fuel maps for durability.

 

Agreed. I would even argue that Toyota's 4 cylinders have better longevity than Honda, as they can make it past 200,000 mi without burning oil like a two-stroke. I have had a couple of 4ag's, and a22R-E, and they all had hard lives. Never blew one up.

 

Could be... Most of my driving time in Toyotas has been V6s (parents had a v6 Camry and Ive had a Taco and now the 4R)... but my wife did have a 4 cylinder Corolla when I met her and that never had any engine problems other than the MAF sensor threw a code and had to be cleaned periodically as it got past 150k.

Had LOTS of Honda 4s over the years however. Dad had an '77 vintage original CVCC Civic (the yellow hatch) when I was a kid then we had 85, 95,04 Civics... 82, 87 Accords, I had an 03 RSX (USA market Integra - K20A2 motor), etc. The 85 civic blew its had gasket around 240k but other than that I don't remember any of them having significant internal engine problems.

 

I agree the Braptor looks ridiculous, but it's insanely capable, so I could get over the looks. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the aftermarket comes out with some better flares.

Lite Brite recently got one, and they shredded it pretty good over the looks,.but they love the driving experience and have probably wheeled theirs harder than anyone else other than the development teams.

I think the BadSquatch trim level looks fantastic, I see one nearly everyday and the look has not gotten old to me.

I've said it a few times, but the next gen 4R needs to be a carbon copy of the Bronco spec and feature list, but with a fixed steel roof. That would be AMAZING.

 

One thing about longevity that is being overlooked here.
People that buy Fords are not thinking of it lasting forever, or even 150K miles. If they were, they would buy Toyotas.