Ditch front sway bar?

I'm considering ditching my front sway bar, I did it on my gen 2 Tacoma, it had OME heavy front springs, and it improved the ride slightly and I never felt like I had too much body roll.
My 4Runner has 1.5" stock weight springs and Eibach shocks.
I'm just wondering if anyone has gone this route.
I saw a good video by Tinkerers workshop about the increase in articulation.
I would leave the rear on.

 

I took my rear off. It does improve ride quality. Body rolls slightly more. But still much more stable then stock and I love how it handles. I also have eibach shocks, with dob springs

 

I took my front sway bar off mine and does have a little more body roll, but can't really tell it, personally I like the way it rides now. I have the Fox Pro shocks with the Eibach lift springs front and rear, still have the rear sway bar on tho.

 

I watched the video as well. And, if I didn't have KDSS, I would strongly consider removing the front sway bar. I'd say that if off road articulation is more of a priority than body roll for you, go for it.

 

I would suggest to consider dual adjustable suspension and play with low compression setting. I was able to play like a kid on the road dial them up with my sway bar on (I haven't tried removing it). I think if you remove the front sway bay low compression dial will help to act like the sway bar. Again no personal experience removing front sway bar but that's how I felt playing with the adjusters on my ELKA 2.5DC.

Edit -

BTW, don't forget about having bigger bump stops and extended brake lines in front. When I got ELKA I had to get rear brake lines extended since my non KDSS have more flex than KDSS but didn't do front since I did not remove sway bar. If you remove front sway bar I bet it will stretch your front brake lines.

I really wish 4Runner has easy swaybar manual disconnect like for Jeeps-




I'm not a fan of end link disconnects for 4Runners. That's too much trouble.

 

Kai on tinkersadventure is a cool cat. Ive spoken to him a few times back and forth. He is good people.



EDIT- may as well plug the vid in question. Good info.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcgKbUTQJy8

 

Extended brake lines are definitely a good idea if one is removing the front sway bar AND using extended travel coilovers or long travel suspension. Otherwise, droop is going to be the same as stock.

 

Your lifted vehicle with a higher center of gravity and no front sway bar is not more stable than stock.

 

No rear sway bar.

Maybe getting rid of the mushy stock shocks helped.

 

When my Overland Custom Design end link broke in half and the sway bar went into the CV boot I ditched my front sway bar. There is absolutely a noticeable change in body roll and it’s not an insignificant amount. Overall I’m happy with the change but I’m not going to pretend like it was barely noticeable. On ramps and off ramps, curvy mountain roads you have to be much more precise and fluid with your steering inputs. Fast movements and quick change of directions cause significant lean to the point that passengers sometime verbalize that they feel uneasy.

Offroad however, behind the Kings it’s easily been the most significant improvement in ride quality. Mind blowing how much better it is on trails.

If I daily drove it I’d consider putting it back on, but for how I use it, that front bar got turned in for scrap.

 

Love the TinkersAdventures channel as well and this recent video got me thinking. I haven't climbed under to check it out, but how feasable would it be to just pull the end links and zip tie the bar for off road days and then throw them back in after? If that isn't possible, I may just pull it and road test to see how bad the body rolls effects the ride with my driving style.

 

Daily drive and offroad without front sway bar for years now. Body lean is noticeable, but dont bean idiot and youll be fine. I like it significantly more without than with.

 

Let's have a road report. Sounds like an interesting project.

 

It is about not being an idiot, but it’s alao about losing your ability to perform emergency maneuvers.

 

Thats my point though... if youre considering doing this and purposefully remove a part of the suspension that controls stability, and then dont change your driving behavior, youre going to have a bad time

 

@Agent_Outside I really wish one of our Toyota mod shops we have in CO would consider to build a manual disconnect sway bar. I wonder if that a hard item to build. I mean build a complete sway bar with a disconnect mechanism that can bolt in to the same bolts where I have marked on the image I downloaded? Can't think of a reason why its hard to build something like that.

 

FWD to 5:30 to see what can happen if you do remove it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJPgBzf85sc&t=560s

 

So that means we don't need long travel suspension? Those regular Fox suspension have so much droop to damage axles? That's good to know other than think for a solution for axle damages.

Edit -
May be add limit straps would help to keep the flex to a save level?

 

I swear I love these videos for so many reasons! Makes me wanna just head out west.

Im betting that this overextended because the owner never checked for binding of the CV joint after making all those suspension changes. I’m betting the new UCAs and LCAs and shocks give way longer travel than stock. If you have stock travel shocks, removing the swaybar should not cause CV binding theoretically.

 

Deep down I know you are right. But it almost hurts when I get out on the trail to take a flexed out brotograph, and see those front wheels hardly an inch away from their normal positions, while a back tire is stuffed. A mix of hurt, disappointment, and a little disgust really. I’m considering removing mine, even if it’s just to address my emotional needs.

I’m really thinking about tinkerers video. I saw a comment on there that some 4runner trims like the Sport, came with thinner front sway bars. Hmmm…

I wonder if a good compromise for on road stability would be a thinner bar in the front, and a thicker bar in the back to transfer a bit more force to the front. Then again…I saw another comment that thicker bars in the back will lead to more oversteer potential in on-road evasive maneuvers….complex interactions for sure!!!

 

Isn’t the KDSS system essentially doing the same thing?

 

KDSS only adds some front flex and reduced flex in rear. Cannot compete with non KDSS thinner rear swaybar flex + no front sway bar. Especially when lifted.

If you look at Wrangler or Bronco sway bar disconnects they truly split the sway bar and let it flex / rotate more freely. Vs Toyota only one side is flexed with a hydraulic ram.

Adding some pics -

Bronco -

Wrangler -

 

Ok, thanks for clarifying. At the end of the day, we are still bound by the limitations of the front IFS.

That’s where the Jeep platform can lead the pack.

 

IMO I think IFS still compete strong with no front sway bar.

Or

If any aftermarket company or even Toyota can build a split disconnectable sway bar it would be insane fun. It does not have to be electronic. It can be simple as manually tightening a screw type thing by hand just like the aftermarket Evo Nolimit for Jeep has.

 

+1. It may help off-road, but having no sway bar on road can be downright dangerous. When I was in my 20s driving sporty cars changing sways was popular to improve handling. You changed both to reduce body roll. You made the rear stiffer to increase oversteer, and softer to increase under steer.

Having no sway at all up front will increase oversteer to the point the vehicle will be prone to spin when you loose traction in wet/ice. Very scary situation if you have never experienced it.

 

I wonder what Kai thinks of the optional sway bay Total Chaos sells with the +2 LT kit? It looks lighter and is obviously wider, so it might perform well, providing some stability while allowing the LT IFS to droop. Does anyone have an opinion on that setup?

mike

 

Looks like he got adjustable shocks. So he might not be needing a swaybar.

 

Having adjustable damping might help with on-road stability, but I dont think it will help in all situations, especially full braking at interstate speeds where some evasive steering is needed. The extra time on the brakes will probably get those shocks compressed all the way, and take slow-speed damping rates out of the equation. I would think a shock with both adjustable slow-speed compression and slow speed rebound damping would be much better than nothing.

 

A KDSS equipped 4runner has more front flex, and more overall articulation than a non-KDSS 4runner, but reduced rear flex. It's a very good option for anyone who wants the best compromise of road manners and off-road articulation.

But, if you want the best off-road performance and aren't concerned with sway, a standard 4runner with the front sway bar removed is better.

And, if that's not enough flex, get a Heep or an old Landcruiser.

 

I'm planning to remove mine only when offroad, not when on. My concern is for the additional droop with the longer pro Fox shocks causing issues with the shock, ball joint or tie rod end, I haven't found a clear answer yet. I'll mostly be easing along on moderate trails, nothing too big/hard. I wouldn't think slow speed shock topping would be to harmful, cheap shocks were all that held my jeep axles up. I'll definitely be jacking it up and checking it all unhooked to see for sure!