PCS System Malfunction, Dealer says radar needs to be replaced

Found this reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/4Runner/co...or_your_4runner_warranty/?utm_name=androidcss

Brand new 4runner with no mods, same issue as mine and dealer saying the bracket is bent and they won't pay to replace it. Interesting, seems like these systems are so new and our 2 year old cars are just starting to have problems with them and it seems dealers don't have the full training/knowledge on them

 

I’d go to the dealership, hope they have a new 4Runner on the lot and look at it. If it’s the same, take pictures and have the service advisor come look.

 

Well I took it to another dealer this morning. They're saying that the lift and bigger tires is the cause of the radar failing and that the bracket is stock, not bent. Still though, they will not cover it under warranty and are not 100% sure that replacing the radar will solve anything...I don't know where to go from here

 

If your radar system is failing due to the extra height and position of the front end, can you try to readjust it yourself to approximate the original orientation? What have you got to lose at this point?
I would think there must be a way for the OEM to adjust the position and calibrate it after installation.

 

What I dont get is the overwhelming number of lifted/bigger tired rigs on this site, with radar/adpt... and no one else is having this issue? I would ask for two things:

A written reason they feel the lift and bigger tires contributed or caused the issue.
How they determined that the radar is not functioning?
Are they assuming it is the unit itself?
Is it the new radar trajectory causing the issue because of the lift/tires? (If so, for liability reasons, they may not be able to offer you advice on adjusting it to a proper angle?)

Once you have all of that, request a regional manager to talk with you about their decision, but only after you have all of the above info.

You have a right to know why they are denying you warranty.

 

I looked at the bracket and radar and unfortunately I don't think there's a way to manually adjust the radar without bending/breaking stuff. If all else fails I'll give it a shot.

Gave them a call. They said that the lift and bigger tires directly resulted in the radar failing and warranty will not cover it because the suspension is after market and not installed by Toyota. Advisor said he even called Toyota directly and asked and they told him no.

I asked if the radar can be adjusted manually and he said no because the sensor itself is failed. I then asked how they determined its failed and he said they attempted to calibrate it and it would not.

At this point I might reach out to my insurance and see what they say then call Toyota and talk to the manager, after I cool down

 

Some interesting info on calibrating the forward looking radar system.
https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/home/article/21122498/calibrating-forward-facing-radar-sensors

 

What a PITA.

Sorry man.

 

If the bracket bend, there is no way you can bend it back. Why? because you don't know what angle it should be. It is not 90 perfect degrees for you to bend. It is a level degree. Think like this ( radar needs to be perfectly level horizontal and vertical). Anyways, replace the bracket first then find local ADAS calibration it will cost you less to do the calibration. The headlight is not your problem. It s the height and how the car sits. I don't see your car in person I can't really say much.

Many users on this forum claim lifting is not an issue. lolzz

Do you know the total height lift, I am talking about the fender-to-floor differences.

 

This isn't an answer.

HOW did they determine it was the lift/tires? To reject a warranty claim, their must be a definable explanation. "Because" is not definable. What methodology did they use to determine that the root cause was the lift/tires? If what they said is true, how did they determine that the root cause of the "sensor failed" issue was caused by the lift and tires? I can understand if you had connected a bunch of lights to the battery, blew a fuse and then had an "electrical" issue, but from where I am standing, there is no definable correlation between a mechanical lift and larger tires, and the failure of an electrical sensor. I assume there are no frayed wires? No plugs were unplugged or changed? Unless there is a specific clause in the warranty that the addition of any aftermarket part on any part of the vehicle would be cause for forfeiture of the entire warranty, you are not being given credible information.

 

I would not touch the bracket, I would contact Toyota Corp and verify for yourself. As is stated below, this doesn’t add up. K, you raised the height of the vehicle, I can understand the radar might not work properly as it’s not calibrated. If it broke the radar, so would cresting a hill (think nose up and road down), at least the way I am seeing it. I would also be clear with Toyota Corp how the dealership told you the bracket was broke and tried to blame you for that and wanted you to pay, how can you trust these mechanics when they can’t tell the truth or don’t have enough experience to confirm the bracket is like it should be.

this,

 

So much circular BS!!! Are they saying the sensor itself failed (internally broken) because you lifted the vehicle???? How could that possibly make sense?

I think the lift gave them a weak ass excuse to not cover a broken sensor. And actually, if it’s broken, then they could just say it was physically broken by impact (how else?), then they give you a quote and send you to your insurer. Would be so much easier of tehy were up front.

Of course, these guys dont seem to be that sharp, so it might not be broken at all. It could simply be they dont know how to calibrate it.

Anywho…seems like a waste a time and a coronary waiting to happen. It might be time to take care of it yourself and look for obvious causes.

Have you done any work to the front end, like removing the bumper cover, or anything that goes anywhere near the sensor, its mount, or its wires? Maybe retrace your steps and look for any damage. Look for the obvious stuff, like damaged wires, broken clips etc.

I took my bumper cover off to mount my Warn winch bumper on. And I came very close to damaging the mount or wiring of the radar sensor (dont remember which) when I was reinstalling the bumper cover and top grill piece. Luckily, I caught my mistake before any damage. i’ve had a 2.5in/1.5in lift and the Warn bumper on for 22,000 miles, and touch wood, no problems since then.

Even if it’s completely stock, there might be road damage, rodent damage, or the hit from the other car you mentioned was enough to crack something. That bumper cover is very flexible, so even of you didnt hit it hard, it could be enough to snap the sensor itself.

Alternately, take it to a body shop and tell them where you had hit the bumper before. Ask them to give you a quote on fixing the radar, and then talk to your insurance…

 

remove the lift and put it back original. NO dealer will fix it if you lift the vehicle.

 

Not true. Stop listening to the interwebs. If the lift was the direct causation of a problem like a bent control arm, premature brake wear, transmission or transfer case problem, then yes, but this has no direct affect on the issue. The dealership nor the OP have said how the dealership derived at the conclusion it was the lifts fault. Unless they have a direct correlation or their is a clause in his purchase agreement that says a lift voids all warranties (which I've never see from Toyota), which I am more than certain they don't, he needs to get Toyota Corporate involved.

 

I think this is generally solid advice anytime you take in the vehicle for potential warranty work. This would extend to ANY mod, regardless of how much you think it’s not related to the problem.

But Why? Especially if they cant deny warranty if a mod isnt the cause? Because, they will find some link, somehow, to say that was the cause. The dealers, at least all the toyota dealers Ive been to, know exactly when and how to play dumb.

I have a squeak (very obvious) in the rear passenger seatback that happens whever I have a passenger in that seat. Most likely, the spring on the pivot point itself is the cause. I hoped I could take it in, have them verify the problem (it’s easily reproducible), and have them make an honest attempt at fixing it.

instead, they took it for a test drive, blamed the problem on a CB antenna I had left in the trunk (it was cargo, not installed). The mechanic then moved the antenna, test drove it, and said the problem was solved. Of course, they played dumb when I pushed lightly on the seat back and pointed out the noise was still there.

So, unless you enjoy going multiple rounds with a dealer to prove that your mods (or things in the trunk you forgot to remove) are not the cause, it’s probably best to take it in exactly (I mean exactly!) how it was when it rolled off the factory line.

 

Make sure you dont have any damaged ABS wires that might be throwing a PCS code. Many times these wires get damaged when a vehicle is lifted.

 

I had this squeak. Sprayed the spring with some white lithium grease and the problem has never returned.

 

Yeah, shuould have just risked making a mess lol (because I would). Does it smell inside the cabin?

 

Nope, though I didn't go too crazy with how much I sprayed on.

 

Update:
After 4 days at the dealer and going back and forth between the service manager and the service advisor, they decided to replace the radar under warranty and that this is my "1 freebie". I didn't argue, I just went along with it. Just got the car back and everything works like I drove it off the showroom floor. They even let me keep the old radar and bracket, if anyone wants it for research purposes I can mail it to you (you pay shipping).

Still though, could not tell me If it was actually the lift that caused all of this or me backing into it with my 3rd gen. I'm leaning towards the latter of the two issues. Note to self: if it's not engine related, don't take it in.

 

It's because you have no idea how radar works. 1/2 inch can cause many problems, replacing the windshield not touching the radar requires re-calibration. I won't go into dêep. But the dealer will deny it. you can argue all day, your car won't get fixed unless you buy parts,s and 100% no guarantee by dealerships. They will note on the bottom, you signed and kêep on spending the money. Well, at that time you spend time and money on lawyers and such...

 

But could the lift break the radar? I agree it may make it not function properly until recalibrated, but to destroy it?

 

will not destroy it, just need to recalibration from the beginning, if the tolerance is out of degrêe then adjust accordingly.

 

So would you agree the dealership could not say the lift was the cause of the radar being broke. I am very concerned about all the dam sensors on my 22, as I hope to add a winch and bumper(s) at some point, and a mild lift mainly to handle the weight.

 

I agree that the lift will not break the radar. However, they don't like to spend time on it even putting a new radar not a guarantêe fix, so they are denying it from the beginning. The lift is the first reason for radar stopped working right?

I put bigger tires, and lifted 1'', I had them re-calibrated. I don't have any problems. If I do, I am covered. I make them noted. Not just covered, I want my radar to work properly.

 

But don’t they have to prove the lift was the cause to refuse?

 

of course, there are tons of documents., not just a lift. you will be surprised by what you will learn in the future. As I stated above, if you install a new windshield it causes the lane change not to work. Imagine a lift.

 

So if I read this right Toyota blames the suspension lift and it won't calibrate. Which leads me think then how does Toyota make it work on the Trd Pro Edition which comes factory with a 2 inch lift over "lessor" models. Different bracket? Maybe I'm wrong are the newest Pro models not equipped with adaptive cruise and Pcs. Seems to all work well my stock '22 Orp.

 

Wut?

 

Pro 4R does not come with a 2" lift in the front. The Fox setup might be 1". And, it has all the same 'safety' features.