PLEASE HELP!! Lift kit vs leveling!

Hi all! I really could use some help and I know I’ve come to the right place! I’ve read some posts here, but still confused and hope someone can help me!

I am on my second 4Runner (2022), but looking to lift or level it. I didn’t have to do this on my last 4Runner (2010), so this is all new to me.

Can some explain the difference between a lift and a level? If I get a lift kit, I will prob go with Blistein. I was told by my auto ppl that their isn’t a level kit for the new 4Runners so I would have to get a lift kit to use the spacers to level it. If I’m buying a lift kit, might as well lift it, right? I just don’t have intentions on changing the tires to a larger size til these need to be replaced.

Does it drive diff which one I go with? I know lifting makes it drive stiffer, but I like the way mine drives now.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated! TIA

 

Leveling kit usually refers to a spacer lift to even out the rake (rear sitting higher than front).

bilstein 5100’s are adjustable, so you could have a level ride with those.

 

It's not so much a lift vs a level. Both are technically a lift.

When you lift, it is essentially raising the front and rear of the vehicle. When you level, you are lifting the front end more than the rear to "level" out the vehicle.

Most often, people refer to a level when they are only raising the front to get rid of the rake from the factory. They refer to it as a lift when raising both the front and rear.. Typically, the ⁴Runner is raised more in the front than the rear, so it is both a lift and level.

You mention Bilsteins but there are several Bilstein options. I used 5100s. With the fronts, you have 4 settings that need to be set prior to installing the spring on the strut. The bottom is level, second setting is .85", third is 1.85" and fourth is 2.5" (IIRC). The rear 5100 doesn't have any lift but can accommodate a small lift up to 2". To raise the rear, you need to use springs or spacers.

.85 in the front only will get you a little more level. 1.75 will level it but any weight in the rear will make it look a little nose up.

 

Well your auto ppl didnt quite give you all of the available info.

You can lift the front or level it or lift/level the front and the rear as well!
There is one company that has a leveling kit..... I'll give you the linlks.

Adjustable front coilovers:
PRO-TRUCK Coilover (Front)TOYOTA 4Runner 4WD
E86-82-071-01-20

https://eibach.com/us/2000/E86-82-071-01-20-TOYOTA-4Runner-pro-truck-coilover

Adjustable rear coils:
LOAD-LEVELING SYSTEM (Rear) (For Zero Added Weight)TOYOTA 4Runner 4WD
ak31-82-071-01-02

https://eibach.com/us/2000/ak31-82-071-01-02-TOYOTA-4Runner-load-leveling-system

 

Google is a great place.

 

What are you looking to do by leveling and/or lifting?

Regarding leveling, a good portion of what looks like rake on the 5th gen 4runners, is actually just visual. The body is not actually as raked as it looks. When you compare front and rear, much of the extra space you see between the rear tire and wheel well is because the wheel well goes higher up on the body compared to front.

So if you “level” with the intention of making the empty space in the well wells even front to rear, you’ll end up with the frame being slightly negative rake (relative to the road). That’s not generally a good thing since you’ll actually be squating a bit more than you’d expect with any load in the back, or if you tow trailers. It might also cause noticeable changes in driving dynamics.

If you lift, you’ll probably change the feel of the suspension, since that should be done with new shocks and springs, and you may or may not like it because it’s all very subjective. So some research on specific brands is important to get the feel you want.

 

I will say the Bilstein 5100s got rid of the annoying dive of the front end when braking. Conversely, they are bit stiff. Personally, I like them a lot.

You take the good with the bad.

As @McSpazatron says, do some research. There is a bunch of info on this site that will help.

 

I have Googled my brain to death for months now along with reading forums on what most ppl are using as to why I ask y’all bc a lot of ppl are very helpful. But thx for the suggestion.

 

I believe someone here posted they used 5100 for the front and 5160 for the back. Does that sound right?

 

I belive the rear options in the 5100 series are 5100 and 5160.

It might make sense to explain how you will use the vehicle and your budget (inc whether or not you are twisting the wrenches) to get more specific responses.

 

Thank you! That’s extremely helpful! I was just going for a lift and maybe add larger tires when I need to replace these later down the road. I do want it to be taller. The main thing that is driving me crazy is when I stop while it’s raining in traffic, all the water rushes down my windshield obstructing my view. Not sure if anyone else has that problem. My 2010 didn’t do that. I love how it drives now and scared if I lift it I will not like how it handles.

 

Greetings,

Whatever you decide, do not settle for a spacer lift. I did out of ignorance and it was an expensive lesson. I attached my thread telling the story.

For the rain on the windshield, try some RainX. It’s an amazing product and at highway speeds you won’t even have to use your wipers during a rain storm.

Best wishes.

https://www.4runners.com/threads/shock’ing-discovery.26659/

 

I was told by one place they do not recommend spacers bc I would be replacing them all the time bc they break easily. For the RainX, I do use that, but it doesn’t help. It’s like the water collects on the roof and if I stop at a red light or a stop sign, I’m literally in a car wash. It freaks me out when I can’t see.

 

So no. You won't be replacing the spacers all the time but it doesn't improve the stock components.

Based on your concerns, the water is rushing down the windshield when you brake because of the nosedive. Bilstein 5100s or the Eibach kit will reduce this. Can't eliminate it but it's an SUV with a large roof.

If you stay reasonable with the lift, you can drastically improve the ride quality.

My suggestions would be as follows

1. Bilstein 5100s on both front and rear. Set the Bilsteins to the 1st setting above stock .85"

2. Bilstein 5100s on both front and rear, and rear Bilstein 1" springs. Front set at second perch above stock 1.85" You will most likely get some lean to the Drivers side so a 10mm spacer in the rear and 1/4" spacer in the front drivers side will minimize this. I know because this is exactly my setup.

Feel free and replace Bilstein with Eibach in my above suggestions.

Larger tires is opening a whole new can of worms. You now have to deal with wheel offset and tire selection, which is limited. There's a wealth of knowledge on this site about that.

For reference, here's my 4Runner with option 2 above. Driveway is a little slanted, it's Houston...
The wheel well gap is 1" smaller in the front vs rear

 

And yes, before anyone comments on the Jeep stuff on the wall, I am an equal opportunity enthuiast.

In my defense, the Jeep is a real Jeep
#notafiat

 

Oh yeah. Tires are Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws in stock size on OEM TRD Pro wheels.

The stock Dunlop tires suck. Not entirely sure why them put them on. Guessing it's for mpg ratings because they are lightweight highway tires with little rolling reistence

 

You are one of us now. You have the mod brain worm. It wont get better. Lol

While it’s pretty fun thinking and planning out your mods, it took me a while to research so I didnt end up with something that would just cause more problems.

I really wanted a lift, and Im not to lie, cosmetics was a big part of it. Ultimately it was for function as well, so that’s how I justified the expense and the additional maintainance or problems the mods could bring. As @Slopemaster said; there is a potential to create more problems with the wrong way of doing things. Spacers might be fine if small, or if you only use it on road, but if you use it off-road a lot, it may cause serious problems later. The thread he linked covers a lot of these issues.

A suspension lift (new springs/shocks) or spacer lift wont actually help that much with fitting slightly bigger tires. And bigger tires might require additional trimming of the bumper or mudflaps. That’s not too complicated though.

It gets complicated when you get bigger tires and wheels that poke out further to the sides.

I did Dobinsons IMS springs and shocks and have about 2.5 in of lift in front and 1.5 in back. Lots of other combos that are established as good fits, like the bilsteins already mentioned. But your ride will definitely change. By googling even more (nah, this forum is better), you'll be able to take an educated guess if you’ll like the ride of whatever you’re considering.

regarding the rain sloshing down, I doubt raising the suspension is gonna change that. The curve on the roof should direct most of the rain to the rain channels/gutters, so it should come down mostly on the left and right sides of the windshield. So maybe it’s just a problem for you because the rain is torrential? I get that after I’ve been sitting heavy rain for a while, but not at every stop. Or do you have some sort of roof rack that blocks flow into the rain channels?

 

Oh I love modifying any car making it my own. I’ve done so much to this one already myself, but this is not one I’m touching. Leaving it to the pros. But agree, mods are addicting!

Tire wise I’d only go from 265 to 275. 285 is cutting it too close. Esp after reading here months ago someone was having issues with 285s and had to do some trimming and I’m not doing that to my baby. I’ve got to get my money’s worth out of this set before I replace them, so after the lift I’ll decide if I want to change the tire size. Til then I’m keeping my 265s. And I was looking at exactly what you did, 2.5 in front, 1.5 in back. Seems most do this.

As far as the rain, I live in Louisiana, 6th rainiest region in the world, yay. I thought it was my luggage rails causing it, but my 2010 didn’t do that. The only difference is my new 4R has the cross bars where my old one did not. Of course Toyota’s response was they never heard of this complaint. It’s a major safety issue. So could the crossbars be the culprit? I did change the rails from chrome to black since my car is blacked out and the chrome was throwing it off, but same rails from Toyota and still have the issue.

I’ve been researching here before I caved in and bought the 22. It’s been very helpful! Thank you for the advice! Y’all have been so kind I I really appreciate y’all.

 

Any vehicle I’ve ever bought, the first thing I do is replace the stock tires. My dad didn’t raise no fool lol

 

The rain thing is a tough one…you might have to explore those circumstances around that a bit more. I mean, Ive gotten that once or twice, but it’s when it’s torrential rain (which might be what you consider “Louisiana drizzle”).

Doubt crossbars have anything to do with it. Maybe your 2010 had a slightly more domed roof due to variability between vehicles?

Or maybe just a bad combo of heavy rain, and you not reaching speeds high enough to push water off the back as you’re driving around? Maybe goosing the throttle a bit harder off the line will help clear the water out the back?

 

Only comment I have on the Jeep is that Jeeps are awesome!

 

As far as the rain running down the windshield, a 2010 and 2022 are the same vehicle. Perhaps one had a sunroof and one didn't? I image with a sunroof the water would run through the drains rather than straight down the roof. Just a shot in the dark.

 

If it is an issue to you, put a diverter on the roof. Think how you have diverters on a roof, to throw water to a different part.
Not sure even where to begin. I have driven my 4runner in torrential rain and it doesnt seem to be an issue, that I have noticed.

 

I leveled my truck and eliminated the nasty nosedive when braking with Bilstein 6112s with coilovers from ToyTec in the front with the adjustable clip in the thrid position giving me a 1.85 inch lift in the front. In the back I yanked the stock shocks and installed Bilstein 5100s. I am very happy with this setup and I run 275/65-18 Nitto Ridge Runner tires.

 

I really think the water on the windshield is due to the nosedive. It's probably worse with the factory rake. I really don't think it has anything to do with the crossbars. Maybe rather than the rainx, put a nice coat of wax. Graphene, or ceramic on the roof to help it shed while driving.

Also, my TRDORP has no sunroof and I dont have this issue. Bought it that way cause I never used the ones on any vehicle i had in the past and $4k to replace the sunroof rails on a BMW I used to have sealed the deal for me ( pun 100% intended). Not sure if it would have with the stock suspension, that came off with 52 miles on the odometer.

Being on Houston, when we get rain, it comes down in buckets. Read: Hurricane Harvey that dumped 54" on us in 5 days.

 

I live in LA as well.
Leveled both of my T4R's, reduced nosedive to a negligible amount and can't say I experience the rain across the windshield where it causes me any issues..

 

Fortunately I live in the desert so it only rains about 2-3 times a year. Also we don’t have to worry about rust. The only thing we have to deal with is dust. I gave up years ago trying to keep the house windows clean. Every time I cleaned them, a big dust storm would blow through.

 

There are any number of suspension providers who can give you the 2.5 / 1.5 lift you're aiming for. You just have to decide what will fit within your budget. Bilstein and Eibach are the most budget friendly offerings that'll get you there, but there are plenty more for about double what those two will run.

When I got mine in 2019, I so wanted to lift it and add bigger tires, as it looks so much better. After having leveled it somewhat with Eibach shocks, I realized it was more than enough, and still looks great, without having to change tire size. The Falken Wildpeaks I got added a ton of looks and capability without having to modify wheel wells, mud flaps, body mounts, etc., and the combo of Eibach and Falkens still drives and handles great.

If I lived by myself I'd get an Elka lift setup. If I did that now I don't think my wife would go with me anywhere anymore.

Good luck on your search.

 

Keep it simple, get eibach pro truck or 5100 struts/shocks. Set them on the second or third notch. That will level it out and it'll drive much nicer

 

That sounds too easy. I am still trying to get past acronyms, truck leans, xraes, kdss, pro, king, etc etc.