Hole in the Rock Trail UT- My 4R is 750 mi away, what would ya do?

Agree with everything you said!

Everyone who saw it happen was in shock. At the end of the day, it is my fault, not the 4R's. That said, in all the research I have done over the past few days, it does seem that the steering rack is not as sturdy as the rest of the car, it's not sub par by any means, it just probably won't win any awards. Mostly off roaders, but alot of guys with 4R's and FJ's are aware of it, some apparently even carry a spare rack & pinion if needed for a trail repair.
I too will keep a firmer grip on the wheel in the future while off roading, just in case. Driving it back down the 26 mile trail with no power steering aid was brutal. It wasn't so much cranking the wheel "driver" and "passenger" while navigating boulders, it was the tennis ball sized rocks in the dirt when just "cruising", they would grab the tire and it would want to follow, ripping the wheel out of my hands if I didn't have a death grip on it. I'm a big dude, 6-6 and used to be kind of a gym rat, and I literally could not raise my arms above my head afterwards, probably should have adopted a different method but it made it to pavement so I was happy. Almost lost a thumb and my wrist is still sore lol
Spoke with my broker, insurance will cover it. My deductible is rather large (by choice) and it would likely raise our rates, so my threshold for making a claim, to make sense, is about $4500 so I'm imagining it will just be an expensive lesson learned on my own dime.

 

All good info! Also good to know about insurance. Id be afraid to even ask my insurance if my policy would cover me for damage off roading, out of fear that just asking would raise my rates lol.

Interesting that folks carry around steering rack spares lol. Thats pretty hardcore haha.

 

I don't fully understand how the steering rack and all that functions, so keep that in mind in case the answer is stupidly obvious! Just so I understand what happened, the steering wheel came out of your hand when the wheel caught a rock unexpectedly, but how does that cause a failure like this? Did it go full stop suddenly and turn something inside that isn't supposed to be turned?

Thanks!

 

Yeah, carrying around an extra rack is pretty hardcore lol. That's why I love my broker, Pam. She shops for the best deals and I can also ask her stuff/bounce things off of her without actually talking to the insurance company (that would make me nervous too). She is an independent, and services all the carriers, so she doesn't work for them directly. She's the best.

 

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I dont fully understand it either, but my theory is that the wheel deflection happened so quickly, that the hydraulic fluid in the power steering system could not flow through quickly enough, resulting in a pressure spike (water hammer effect) which blew/ballooned out lines. The physical force /quickness of steering deflection was probably helped along by the 4runners suspension geometry.

Ironically, that same geometry provides for lighter steering forces,… which maybe led to it requiring a hyd system design that is relatively less powerful??? Thus making this a weak spot?

 

Was it drivable after hitting the rock? Like you had power steering but wheel toe(angle) was off?
Rack leaking fluid?

Surely it's not just a bent tie rod ? You can look to see if it's bent as it's out in the open and would be obvious.If bent,You could have just adjusted it to get it straight enough to drive home or to a auto parts store to change it. Takes about 10 minutes to change a outer tie rod.Always carried an extra offroading as they are made to be the weak link . The inner tie rods are stout and never seen one bent.

Yes ,the factory manual has to unbolt a bunch of stuff and jack up the front of the engine but a special aftermarket tool can hold the inner tie rods to unbolt them to make it easier or use big pipe wrenches. The main reason they say to lift the engine is Toyota put the 2 big rack bolts in before the engine,pointed down.

You have to cut them and install new ones from the bottom facing up when new rack is installed but there still is a lot of other stuff in the way but kind of self explanatory for a mechanic when he's working it . The inner tie rods can be super tight and the hardest part as they are hard to get to so they may need this tool .

$90 OEMTOOLS 27178 Master Inner Tie Rod Removal Tool Set, Removes and Installs Tie Rods, 12 Crowfoot Adapters, Compatible with Cars, Trucks, and SUVs

https://www.amazon.com/OEMTOOLS-271...mzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

 

Glad you responded (THANK YOU), I was just about to possibly post another thread asking about the mechanics of it. After I hit the rock, I immediately lost power steering, although fluid was not leaking yet, it was ballooning up in the rubber boot (like a balloon). The road was 26 miles away, so thankfully I made it 20 miles before "POP". I never checked to see if it was the boot that blew, or somewhere else. Yes, the toe was visibly off and the steering wheel had to be about 1/4 turn to the right for it to go "straight". I made it the additional 6 miles to the road without even a squeal from the pump, so I'm hoping the pump/bearing is still ok, but whatever.

So, would it be possible, if the seal blew (which it must have), to just replace that one side (side that hit the rock), perhaps some ball joints and tie rods, and avoid replacing the entire rack? Or, is it kind of an all or nothing thing?
Also, what would y'all do? Currently it is at Montella's Auto (Quality Auto) in Blanding, UT. They're nice, they towed it to their shop after it sat at Halls Crossing for six days while I tried to find it transport, they have good google reviews. They can't really look at it til Wednesday (busy). I can have Toyota tow it to Grand Junction Toyota (nearest dealer) for free. I called GC Toyota, and they said labor hours for replacing the rack is only 7 (my local mechanic looked it up and his book said 18 hours and to pull the motor, which he admitted sounded a little wierd) hours and they wouldn't need to pull the engine. GC's Toyota dealers labor rate is also only $140 (cheap for me given here in SoCal it is much higher). So, do I just tow it to the Toyota dealer? Or, is it a relatively straight forward repair and the shop would do just fine. Only downside is if there are any issues afterwards, I have no recourse and am back to square one as I live in Orange County, CA. At least if it was a Toyota dealer that did the repair, I may have a little help from Toyota if, say, the new rack was defective or whatever.

My other option is just suck it up, rent a Uhaul trailer and borrow my Dad's Expedition and go and get it. That would burn 2-3 days and I really don't want to, but sometimes I think that might be best?

Logistics sucks being 750 miles away from the car. Appreciate any advice! Thanks for the free vent session / therapy!

 

Just have Montellas do it. It's already there. Why complicate this needlessly by remotely having it moved elsewhere? I'm sure they aren't going to fuck you, and anyway I'd trust a little guy over a dealer any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

Don't disagree with you, very valid points; if the car was "home", I would definitely just let my mechanic (I typically have the same outlook on dealers, if its under warranty, fine, otherwise no thanks) do it and not bat an eye. I'm 99% sure Montella's could do the job just fine, and probably for cheaper. That said, I don't know them, they seem very nice, but given the inner tie rod bolt situation (which equals a variance between 18 hours of labor and 7 hours depending on how the job is done), and the fact that I know the dealer will take the 7 hour approach, it makes sense. Every time I speak with Montella's, they are great, but very busy, so busy that it sounds like they would rather have the 4R off of their plate. I don't envision them wanting to do the research on the job and which labor route they would take before they can even "possibly" take a look at it Wednesday. At the dealer, I'll have some semblance of a parts/labor warranty, can fly directly into Durango to pick up the car, etc.

 

The 4R arrived yesterday to Toyota of Durango. The shop where it was at in Blanding, UT was a little sketched out by the TSS/radar cruise (which is likely just a dirty front camera or just needs a reset, not worried about it) warning lights and due to the labor guide variance on the rack and pinion repair, agreed it was probably best to get it to Toyota.

I learned that Toyota Roadside Assistance just sublets out to AAA. Again, due to semi-remote location of the tow and the distance, AAA wasn't able to find a tow truck. I'm now out $1740 just in towing fees lol. In theory, the tow from Halls Crossing to Blanding I can get reimbursed by AAA, and Blanding to Durango by Toyota. We will see. Toyota of Durango seems great so far, quoted only 7 hours for the rack and pinion including an alignment. Seem to know their stuff and nice people.

 

I would have taken it to the dealer too if I didn't know the other shop. Blown seal on rack and pinion and probably bent tie rod.
Here is the Toyota shop manual on the rack and pinion removal. Just looked at my 4runner,It says to remove the front diff but looks like just the bolts need removed or backed off from the front diff carriers. The AC compressor and oil filter housing needs removed or taken loose is the hard part and why people cut the bolt under the compressor and flip a new one .

 

Seems like things are moving along. Have you thought about asking them if replacing it with a tundra steering rack is doable?

 

Thank you for this! Very helpful to have those pictures, the internet pics are so hard to discern. I feel better knowing the dealer has it, and labor rate is way cheaper than here at home, so it worked out. Thanks again for the shop manual info !

 

Finally moving along, thankfully. I did, but I am kind of the mindset that I may be just asking the universe for more issues. I'ts been 10 days and countless phone hours just to get the damn 4R to Durango Toyota lol. I'm not sure how keen the dealer would be on the idea, and if there were complications, I'd be 750 miles away (still), or worse yet, have the truck home and trying to explain to my dealer a possible issue with a Tundra steering rack on my 4Runner. It would probably work out fine, but you know, just in case the steering rack had a flaw from the factory or something?

That said, if I blow another rack or after years of off roading ever need a new one, I am 100% going with a Tundra rack.

 

Yup…agreed. I felt bad after I asked just because of throwing another thing at you to think if lol.

Even if it’s a “straightforward” mod, there’s a time and a place for that. And long distance custom work doesnt qualify as the best time.

 

Exactly my thoughts. No need to feel bad, at this point it just feels nice to talk about the situation

 

Been a long road. Fly out (FINALLY) to pick it up from Toyota of Durango on Monday. Will post some pics of the trip when I return. 2 months without your 4Runner is no way to live, have other cars that I love, but this has been absolute torture. Thank you all again for the feedback and advice. This forum has been awesome, it has been comforting to live vicariously through all of the posts.

CAN. NOT. WAIT. TO. SEE. IT.

 

Completely fixed?

FYI, Toyota of Durango did me a great turn in 2019. My truck was only 2 weeks old, and had a rodent-chewed wire rear its head halfway to Durango from Albuquerque. The symptoms stopped all of a sudden, so I continued on my trip, but pulled in there first thing upon arriving in Durango. It was close to closing time, but they pulled it into the shop. Within 20 minutes I had a diagnosis, and the tech there stayed over to repair the ignition wire and get my wife and me on our way again. Great place as far as I'm concerned.

 

Yup, completely fixed. Turned out to be a little more intense than just the steering rack (upper and lower control arms, wheel bearing, resetting TSS etc. lights and so on). Big fan of Toyota of Durango, they were great overall. Glad to see they treated you well too!

 

Nice, glad it worked out.

 

Great news! Did you ask for parts back? Wonder if the UCA and LCAs failed outright or if it was just precautionary.

 

Yes, I believe you are right, the UCA AND LCA's were replaced as precautionary and based on visual inspection compared to the right side. I would bet the LCA was probably bent a little as the rear part of the fender liner was tore up pretty good from getting it down the trail after the incident, even a small articulation would cause it to rub.

I requested both Icon UCA's to be given to me (right side will be new as they come in pairs), and left side just to have as I'm curious. Icon is not far from my house so I may inquire with them if they would swap it for a new one under warranty, not a big deal either way.

Happy to be getting it back and thanks for all of your insight @McSpazatron !

 

Wow, If the suspension components got bent out of shape enough to tear the liner up, it really was a serious hit! Maybe it was hard enough that it would have broken any steering rack!

 

Well, it's 95% there. Picked it up from Durango CO Toyota on Tuesday and drove it home to SoCal (stopped in Vegas and made $17!). Just backing it out of the dealer parking spot and turning left a bit, the tire was rubbing the fender liner. The left side was about 1" lower than the right (the good) side. Gap between tire and bottom of the body was about 3 fingers on the left, about 4 on the right. Needless to say, there is some adjustments to be made, who knows what (adjust the ride heigh, adjust the caster on the LCA, etc...). Just dropped it off this morning at Irvine Toyota. I bought the truck from them with the Icon lift, wheels and tires installed and most of their techs are off road guys, so it is in good hands. Insurance claim is still open and they are aware it is not yet perfect, so I'm covered from further expense (this was an expensive trip all in).

Here's a pic of it at the Treasure Island parking garage. I parked and then realized I am an idiot, been driving sedans for 2 months and did not even occur to me that i had about 1" of clearance. Yikes.