Toyota Pricing WOW!!

Those are great points and have been a topic for many when it came to the size of vehicles and fuel in Europe vs the USA. Many Americans live in rural area or suburbs of major US cities. We cannot all be expected to move to a major city to limit fossil fuels that is just not practical.

 

I recently had a business meeting in the US with a colleague visiting from Europe. Middle aged guy. Smart. Likes cars but appropriately quite concerned about the environment. Long story short, it was clear his initial reaction to the prevalence of large trucks and SUVs here was to be appalled. Vehicles like the Tahoe struck him as somewhat obscene. But then he spent time in one and "got it." I could see that if he had to live here, with our roads, long commutes and vast rural areas, he'd end up wanting one. IMO, electric propulsion is the solution to the problem posed by vehicles like that. They serve a real purpose and are a rational choice for many (though far from all) Americans. We just need to get them greener, and electrifying them (with a higher percentage of green power sources into the grid) is the way to do that. And bonus! They will at the same time be more powerful, more capable off road, require far less maintenance, and will be more flexible in terms of packaging. It's going to take several years to get where we need to, but it really is going to be something of a win-win. One day people are going to be amazed that we ever needed to fuel our vehicles with an explosive, carcinogenic, polluting liquid from dead dinosaurs. Objectively, ICE is going to look kinda nuts once EV tech matures and charging is easy.

 

Maybe things will turn electric but we should still keep plenty of gas available for those that do not wish to use it.

Do you know how many people love their classic cars and enjoy putzing in their garage working on them or polishing them and cruising in them. I am not a classic car owner but living in and growing up in metro Detroit its a way of life around here. To be honest it is a lot of fun also even for me and those cars are not from my generation. Any given weekend there are groups of classic car guys gathering and enjoying friendship on a local road called Woodward Avenue.

In addition, look at the people with recreational boats, ATV's, etc--are we going to force all these people to give all that up?

In my opinion, we have to find a way to balance this all out.

In the meantime the fuels costs are spiraling our economy out of control, causing inflation, erratic stock market, interest rate hikes and maybe food shortages. The implementation of electrics should be more systematic not encouraged through ridiculous pricing.

I think more than enough people will buy electric over time IF it becomes affordable and is known to be reliable; just don't force the change so fast down everyone's throat. Let us all make our decisions on our own timeline.

 

"Change is the devil" is their motto. Scared af of anything new, and will fight, argue like hell until they try if for themselves and realize they were just ignorant the whole time.

 

Nope, not gonna happen. "I'll only do something different if it happens on my timeline". How old are you?

 

And many of us want to get as far away from big cities as possible.

 

Exactly what I did. I’m an hour out of the city. Best decision I have made

 

I technically live in a suburb of Dallas, but I wish I could be in the mountains away from people and traffic and the government.

 

It’s very nice. Everyone knows each other near me. There is almost zero crime. Local sheriff says he goes to a couple calls a month. Mostly rural issues (escaped animal type things)

 

You aren’t following your own post here. Even look at this thread. There are what? Three of you who seem (seem) to be die hard for EV. EV doesn’t work for a LOT of people right now. The tech is not there yet. Our electrical infrastructure DEFINITELY isn’t. I’ve mentioned this before.

I have not read a single person’s post here that they are against it. It just should not be our ONLY option. When the minority tells the majority how they should think, it’s not longer a “on my timeline” kind of thing as you suggest. In a county that is supposed to be free, it blows my mind how many things we are “mandated” to do.

 

Same! I just moved out of Milwaukee county last November, and I love it where I am! It's so much quieter and more relaxing.

It seems like some people need everyone to agree with them 100% or they're not happy.

The push for EV's just seems weird to me. There are so many reasons not to rush into it, yet some people just want everyone to change right away.

 

I wish I could move even away from the suburbs, but being just a soccer coach I want to be close to work if possible. If only I had some skill that would allow me to work remotely.

 

What mandate? The government isn’t forcing you to buy an EV. The government is not prohibiting ICE. What it IS doing is encouraging the growth of EV’s market penetration through a variety of carrots and sticks. There are incentives (eg the $7500 tax credit) and there is a requirement that the auto manufacturers increase average fuel economy. This is a public policy choice like any other.

The government gives homeowners massive tax breaks on mortgage interest as well as property taxes in order to incent home ownership. I don’t hear homeowners complain about that.

The government provides massive subsidies for oil and gas extraction to incent adequate energy production. From our tax dollars.

The government incents military service by giving benefits to veterans — from our tax dollars. And our senior citizens escape hunger and homelessness thanks to Social Security and Medicare. Also tax dollars. I don’t see a lot of people complaining about those things.

These are all public policy choices that have both costs and benefits — and all aimed at trying to make life better overall.

The climate crisis is real. People are dying and wealth is being destroyed due to wild fires, heat waves, drought, and the spread of disease. And it’s getting worse. This is the truth whether some people stick their heads in the sand or not. Hard choices have to be made to deal with this. These choices wouldn’t be so hard if they had been made years ago when there was more time. But our leaders lacked the courage.

I personally am a big fan of market forces. And they are in fact at work in the auto market’s movement to make more EVs. Lots and lots of people want EVs. My local Kia dealer has $20,000 markups on $40,000 EV6s! Because lots of people want them!

One can disagree that the current carrots and sticks strike the right balance. But let’s understand them for what they are. They aren’t laws forcing you to buy an EV. They aren’t making ICE vehicles illegal. They are giving you financial incentives to buy EVs and forcing manufacturers to reduce the average amount of pollution caused by their products, which means they’re gonna make more EVs than they might otherwise.

And because of the good old fashioned market force of competition, these EVs are gonna be good and increasingly desirable products. Most of us on this forum will have one one day, and we’ll think it’s a pretty damn good vehicle. Meanwhile there’ll still be gas for our then-classic ICE vehicles. It’s impossible for even a slight majority of cars on the road to be EVs for a couple decades. This is a loooong process. No need to panic about it.

 

California is working on having every vehicle sold after 2035 zero emissions (there is that buzz word).

 

CA still wears masks outside. Who cares about CA.

 

hahahahahah!! The number of people I see wearing masks in a car….while alone…. Makes me laugh

 

Right. Even in the so-called "Socialist Republic of California" we essentially have:

1. A proposal of dubious legal authority (it's per an executive order from a governor who won't be around then -- not even a statute, which of course can also be amended or repealed)
2. Something that is 13 years away
3. Something that does not even attempt to ban the ownership of ICE vehicles
4. Something that does not even attempt to ban the sale of used ICE vehicles, only new ones
5. A rather vague proposal that as a practical matter is likely to end up with 16 different loopholes in the unlikely event it's actually implemented, which will require specific rules

To be clear, I'm not a fan of this proposal. But people are overreacting.

 

Pure stupidity and blind obedience seem to be the norm in America these days.

 

I voted Hybrid but think it's going to be more the 48k. Maybe 48k for a non hybrid 4cyl/turbo as we live in a time super inflation! Til the bottom falls at least. Hybrids typically cost more as there's basically 2 powertrains.

The 2021 Jeep Rubicon 4XE Hybrid is going low to mid 60's and their direct competition and Ford supposedly coming out with a Hybrid version for the Bronco for 2023 and it will probably be expensive too.

Here is a good review from a 4XE owner and I know Toyota will come up with something better then this with all of there Hybrid experience and background. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4bQ5KR4A38

I drive 46 miles round trip to work and to be able to drive to work on a battery charge(EV) and still have a ICE/Hybrid powerplant for longer trips/offroading would be the best of both worlds to me.

Especially, if they upped the range to say 100-150 EV miles on a charge and recharge the battery back up with the engine and or wheels when it's ICE motor is running and be able to choose ICE/Hybrid or EV like the 4XE.

EV option..Doesn't make any sense at all to make an all electric 5000+ pound 6th gen 4runner on the battery technology and charging infrastructure we have now. Maybe 5-10 or more years down the road for the next gen

I think Toyota is waiting on decisions to what the competition, technology(solid state batteries in 2025)https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38711469/toyota-solid-state-batteries-2025/ and economy brings and probably won't have a 6th gen til 2025 ,especially if we keep buying them at this rate. They sold more last year then any year in their 39 year history ...hello!
With the current 5th gens still selling like hot cakes they have the luxury to wait and hopefully get it right.

 

You think it would be more than 48,000 even if the Sequoia TT V6 hybrid is only coming in at 62 k

 

If I'm sitting there looking at a hybrid turbo I4 4Runner at 55k and the hybrid Sequoia TT V6 is sitting right next to it for 62k I'm going Sequoia all day long

 

And you're probably looking at an extra 5K pounds towing on the Sequoia

 

Lol my favorite is everybody walking to the table in the restaurant with mask on then everybody takes them off at the table wtf

 

I get it, but that behavior is a bit more rational than it may seem. Your odds of getting sick from Covid is proportional to how much of the virus you inhale and over how long. It’s not the case that any single exposure either results in infection or it doesn’t. It’s not an on-off switch. Infection is dependent on quantity and duration. The seriousness of the resulting illness can be as well.

So it’s actually rational to take the risk of being exposed while sitting down eating in a restaurant but not accept the risk of getting additional viral load when entering and leaving the restaurant, going to the restroom or whatever.

Any time you’re properly masked is time you’ve lowered your risk of getting seriously ill.

Now, the people masked when alone in their own cars? It’s hard to imagine the purpose of that! If people think they’re gonna catch it from the driver in front of them, well that’s such a minuscule risk it’s just nutty.

 

Look at Toyota primes, we have a Rav4 prime, it’s great.

 

I want to respond to this, but I don't want to turn this into a debate about COVID. I will just say I disagree.

 

The more viral load the increased chances of getting sick. Look at flu cases while we were wearing masks, versus not. I hate the mask, but working in a school, I’m glad they wore them.

 

I will just say I'm glad I live in Texas.

 

100% this. Looking into buying some acreage soon. Not the best time to buy, but I refuse to stay near the concrete jungle much longer. As a kid and teen I loved the bright lights and hustle and bustle. But now that I'm older and hopefully wiser, I can't get far enough away!

 

Thankfully I was able to ride out covid in Florida. Couldn't imagine dealing with that for 2 years in California or the Northeast