4Runner or Cherokee Trailhawk

I’d even be ok with this if they make it an easy modular engine unit that is at least easy to service, even swap out whole if necessary. I would have the expectation Toyota can develop it to be reliable.

Power is largely inconsequential to me, as long as it is sufficient for mission (which would not include towing houses ).

 

This is becoming a 6th Gen thread (see what you started OP! ) but since we’re already en route: how would you real off-roaders feel about this new 4Runner adopting a full time 4WD system a la the Limited?

Wonder what Toyota is thinking there, since the new Sequoia is 2WD or part time 4WD except for the TRD Pro, which is presumably the off road version and interestingly is full time 4WD.

 

The front or back?

Hard to tell ride quality when handcuffed.

 

Real off-roaders, LOL.

I'm not really sure if I'm qualified to answer, as I've only been at it for a couple of years and I still consider myself a noob. But...

I could actually see full-time 4 wheel drive having a few benefits. First, it would be great in snow. Second, it would be nice to have the option of an unlocked four-wheel drive for gravel roads and simple trails.

Lol! They really like to put them on tight, don't they?

 

Those of us “real off roaders” who were around in the Cannon/Rockford Files days will remember part-time 4WD trucks with locking front hubs. The benefit was a little better gas mileage with the hubs unlocked. The disadvantage was having to get out of the truck to engage the hubs. Now that locking front hubs have disappeared, full-time 4WD becomes more attractive. I guess there’s an argument to be made that part-time 4WD systems are more robust, but I haven’t read much about failures in the Limited’s full-time system. If Toyota offered the Limited with 17” wheels and the same bodywork as the rest of the lineup I might have bought one instead of the ORP.

 

I figure if the 80 series was full-time 4 wheel drive, I wouldn't have any concerns about reliability. My 2003 was full-time 4 wheel drive oh, and I didn't have any issues with it.

 

I would prefer to have a part-time system with an option to run it in full time. The third gen had this, and I know the first gen Tundra and Sequoia had it as well, not sure about the newer ones.

 

I would argue that a turbo 4 cylinder could be even more serviceable than a V6. When you think about it, the turbo 4 is only going to have one bank of cylinders, so it's going to have half the camshafts, cylinder heads, simpler intake, less timing chain and guides, and easier to package.

Also, turbo is not a new technology. I have a 2007 2.5 L turbo 5 cylinder Volvo approaching 230k miles, and zero turbo issues. Since this turbo question has been coming up quite a bit over the past few years in reference to the 4R, a while back I asked on the Volvo board who's had turbo problems. I don't think anybody actually had one, and there were people with over 300k miles on their original turbos with no issues.

I agree with you about power being inconsequential, if you're talking about horsepower. But, more low end torque would be great in the 4R. A heavy SUV or "truck" as some like to call them, really needs power at the low end of the RPM range, not the top end. That's been the problem with the 4.0 and the 3.5 in the Taco, and why they hunt gears so much.

My turbo Volvo motor makes peak torque at 1800 RPM, unlike the 4L and 3.5, which are both over 4K RPM. So the Volvo is a great driving experience, because you're always right in the meat of the torque band. This car doesn't gear hunt, because when it's loafing at 2000 RPM on the highway, it has plenty of torque to climb hills and maintain speed.

 

The V6 from the Highlander is the same engine in the Tacoma, the 3.5L that most Tacoma owners hate. That would be a step in the wrong direction.

I for one would welcome a turbo 4. Chevy has a turbo 4 available in the Silverado, it's a 2.7 L that makes 310 horsepower at 5600 RPM, and 420 foot pounds of torque at 1500 RPM.

Over 400 foot pounds of torque available practically right off idle, that thing would be amazing to tow with, amazing to drive around town, would not hunt gears on the highway, and would be great at crawling off-road.

THIS is what the 4R needs, not the high strung Highlander/Camry motor in the Taco.

( Just be clear, I'm not saying they should purchase engines from GM, however Toyota already has a 2.7, maybe they could look at something similar to this configuration)

I definitely agree with you on the size, the size of the vehicle is one of my favorite things about my 4R. To me, it's the biggest I guess midsize without being a full size out there. I think the inside cargo space is phenomenal, and I love the flat floor. I wouldn't want to see them shrink the body any, but it would be nice if maybe they widened the track a little bit, ( I don't know if it's just me, but I feel like the 4R has a slightly narrow track for the size of the vehicle. To me it looks like they basically use the same footprint as the fourth gen, and just stuck a bigger body on it) and added clearance for larger tires, even if they don't necessarily specifically offer them from the factory. It would be really nice to be able to fit a 35 on it with minimal work. Also, better ground clearance up front. It really seems like they could do a better job of tucking all the front suspension bits up further in the chassis.

 

I think I'm biased, but here's my take on it. I got a new 2022 4Runner few months ago, before I drove 2010 4Runner for 11 years. In terms of reliability aside of maintenance items like battery, brake pads/rotors and spark plugs I replaced only neutral/park switch and that's it. And I took my old truck offroad, hit rocks, went through the water, many miles gravel and dirt roads etc. By the way it didn't squeak or rattle anywhere which surprised me, I expected some rattling after many miles driving on washboards. Two years ago I went to Alberta and spent week there in rented Jeep Cherokee. Mostly highway, very little gravel / dirt roads, so I didn't test it offroad. I can't say anything about reliability and in general I liked Cherokee but I missed my 4Runner every day. To me 4runner feels more solid on the road, but maybe it was just because I'm so used to it. What annoyed me in Cherokee, it was that you can't drive at all with driver door open, which I do sometimes when I'm not sure if I parked on the white line or not. Another thing I didn't like it's power hatch. Some people like it but I found that manual hatch opening requires more effort due to motor resistance and when I push the button it takes too long to open the hatch. 2022 models are different of course, maybe you need to drive test both and check reliability stats for Jeep, but I would take 4Runner over Cherokee anytime.

 

Agreed with your whole post. My worry is reliability is all in the details of how it’s designed and implemented. Looks like volvo cracked that a long time ago. Not sure that every other manufacturer can rest on the fact that turbos don’t have to be high strung and high maintainance.

Toyota has massive resources for R and D, but a new engine design is never a known quantity. How the turbo is packaged, located, materials used on/around the turbo, all and more have a potential for surprises (bound to pop up after warranty). Add bean counters to the mix, and I kinda cringe a bit.

That’s why I at least hope for ease of service, or at least engine replacement as a modular unit. After all, it seems engines are cheaper than transmissions lol.

 

All good points. Hopefully Toyota engineers come up with a good design, they certainly had plenty of time, lol.

I'm not any type of fanboy at all, but I do have faith in them to come up with an intelligent, functional design.

 

I'm on the same page here. It looks like a lot of turbo 4 bangers are making more torque at lower RPM's than our 1GR. Ford's Ranger makes 310 lb/ft at 3K RPM's.

As far as reliability, Dodge (Cummins) diesels are some of the longest lasting motors on the planet. Obviously, diesel and gas are different, but this tells me that a turbo motor can be reliable. In fact; out of everyone I know personally, the 2 highest mileage engines are both turbo diesels (400K+ and 800K+).

 

Mmmm…I think you read more into my post than what was meant. I clicked on the link that was provided and saw a picture of a window sticker on a 4Runner that said “Jeep Recovery Team” and it gave me a quick chuckle. That’s it. There’s no deep, existential underpinnings to my LOL.

 

I started four-wheeling in the early '70's= mostly for hunting and reptile collecting. Us "real" off-roaders learned early on to lock your hubs as soon as you left the pavement. Only took once in a knee-deep glacier runoff or mud deep muck to learn.

 

"...I did this because the Rubi was ALWAYS in the dealership. And while the Rubi never left me stuck anywhere, the list of things that went wrong with the Rubi was extensive, and they were not small things by any stretch of the imagination (think complete engine rebuild at 14k!)."

I know, those engine rebuilds are a pain=had to do the top end of my pre-taco p/u @ 300k! BTW: Maybe you Rubi didn't strand you off-road but it sounds like it stranded you a lot "on-road"......;-)

 

I chuckled too. It reminded me of a sticker on a jeep " If you can read this, please flip me back over" (the sticker was upside down).

Just saw your post as an opportunity to get an opinion in.

 

So i decided to check out the Jeep website and started to build a trail hawk. First issue, its 400 bucks to choose a color besides white? But it does start at a similar MSRP as the sr 4runner at 37.6K. But I see the jeep MSRP climbing quickly as you need to pay to add lots including tow package. The cheapest Trailhawk I could find near me, is 39.9k.

I am interested in that jeep wave app that has a lot of trails in it. I don't remember how many miles it said.

 

Saw that on an FJ40 years ago! First saw it on an old style Bronco!

 

'Nuff said!!

 

No 4Runner involved!; A Cherokee, FJ40 and a tow truck!

 

fixed, by removing, I now can see the Cherokee, although it did take an extra look.

 

Until Honda makes a body-on-frame 4x4 SUV there is no competition.

 

The highway manners have definitely come into focus to me after relocating back to SoCal. The 405 is under construction and with the myriad lane shifts, certainly need to be paying attention.

Bought mine when I lived in Humboldt County where I thought I would stay, but medical care is atrocious and since my ORP got crushed with 600 miles on it, shoulder way screwed up from being flipped. Felt very well matched in all regards there, but living less than a mile from the Pacific and constantly unfortunately on the aforementioned 405…

Circling back to the initial question, as my first vehicle was an ancient pre square headlight Grand Wagoner, always have a soft spot for the brand, but Trailhawk just doesn’t make the juice worth the squeeze. At least with a Wrangler, you get an kickarse off road vehicle and it’s a convertible to go along with stupendously bad reliability. And killer resale to boot.

I dig AWD and my 100 Series LC was amazing. Stupid decision selling mine. While the GX460 had some of the vibe, I seriously hated looking at the front end of it. Amidst peak COVID joy, went to pickup a 2013 GX (pre Predator) that was full dealer serviced and so forth bringing in an utter turd of a Yukon Denali whose transmission made the drive from Eureka to San Francisco beyond nuts. As the Yukon at that point needing to be towed to go to another dealer amidst COVID madness, accepting a discounted 2021 seemed the least worst option.

As with a 200 Series new being too steep for me and the GX460 reminding me of a Georgia O’Keefe painting, the 4Runner was an utterly easy call. While it doesn’t have that pre Japanese bubble era super quality, what else besides? Provided using it off road and or in the snow is gonna happen. Otherwise, something like my old Lexus LS’s (esp 430 Ultra Luxury) were mighty fine when living in Florida.

 

It's a chrysler product that lacks reliability and is plagued with electrical issues, so no.

 

Chrysler makes the 4Runner???

Our Cherokee (worst car we ever had) was electrical after electrical!!!

 

Johnny Lightning makes good die casts.

 

I don't remember if my 4Runner is Matchbox or Johnny Lightning. I have FJ40s from each!

 

Which one? The white 5th Gen is a boulevard Hot Wheels. Johnny Lightning likes to make classics and there are a few Hot Wheels and Matchbox first gens.

When I was a kid I had a white red and yellow Toyota pick up Matchbox, not sure what happened to it. It was awesome.

 

It was the Boulevard Hot Wheels that I painted Nautical (dark) blue to match mine.