KDSS spacers and skid plates

If you open the valve while the vehicle is on a lift, both pistons could extend simultaneously. Then, if you close it before the vehicle is sitting level, this could cause a lean.

 

My main concern is at the front since there is only one spacer. I see that they are both level. But when the spacer is added to the fixed side, that end will drop lower than the piston side. Now it’s not level. Unless the piston side can move freely without opening shutter ports. I can see if the piston side drops lower than the fixed side. Now I can install spacer and lift sway bar to to line up with fixed link. I’m still trying to picture doing it one at a time. Which do I do first?

 

This sounds wrong. There should be spacers on both sides.

Or, just do whatever the directions say.

There's no reason to only do one side, in my opinion. But, if you follow the directions and get a lean, you can blame the spacer.

I sometimes wonder if these aftermarket manufacturers even understand what they're dealing with.

 

I have Treaty oak that I got from Mike at Exit off-road. The kit has one spacer for the front and two for the rear. That is a little weird. So my thinking of the front is that the piston will make the difference?

 

Weird. I wonder what their thinking is with that.

 

Being completely honest, I don't remember. Sorry man.
I just know that my lean issue was never fixed. Before I was at 1/4" and after hundreds of off roading and rock crawling miles, it is still at that same lean amount. I really just stopped caring because nobody notices besides me.

What's your end goal with the kdss spacers? Is it just to fix the lean?

 

I’m hoping to be as level as can be. My coil overs are at 3.5”. I’m hoping the best.

 

Have you ever thought about opening the shutter valves to see if that would help?

 

i bought the TOO front KDSS spacer at the same time i bought the Ironman rear panhard bar and spacer kit. i have only installed the rears because the vehicle doesn't lean, and it also feels counterintuitive to install the front passenger spacer at this time since there is no lean.

i have the fronts set to ~2.5" lift

i was wondering if the front lift was being restricted somehow by the fixed passenger side but honestly am not sure.

if someone knows more about it, i'd be glad to hear opinions

 

I am curious to see how your sway bar is sitting without the front spacer. Is it sitting level on the fixed side compared to the cylinder side?

 

Yeah I have but trying to avoid that. I'll just get an adjustable suspension next time and fine tune the heights on each side. For now what I have works.

 

I had zero issues when I did my KDSS. It also made install a breeze. I didn’t have to fight to get it aligned and caps on.

 

i did a couple of quick measurements, and the bottom of the front swaybar is exactly 16" from the ground on both sides of the vehicle = level in my book

4runner is not exactly in a perfect level spot on my driveway, but also measured 22.5" passenger side from center of wheel to the fender and 23" driver's side.

sitting in the car i am aware of the 1/2" "lean" to the right, but i would call this all within tolerances and not a true lean like some of these 2-3" leans i'm hearing of

my only observation a few weeks back was adding two more turns on the kings and expecting ~1/2" lift increase (that's what i get in my Tacoma) but after driving around and parking it again, it was exactly the same height... so conspiracy theory wheels started turning blaming KDSS for not letting it go higher! lol

 

It’s hard to get an accurate measurement even it the ground is level. My springs still needs to break in and also I still need to get an alignment. I believe the KDSS spacer kit is to keep it at a stock height or orientation.

 

I think the issue is that the front passenger sway bar doesn't allow enough droop without the spacer. The driver side has the cylinder that can expand for the droop. As far as the back, I "think" the spacers are more there to relocate things to avoid hitting the panhard bar (and the passenger bar incidentally improved droop as a secondary effect).

I just bought this kit that has the adjustable panhard to center the axle with bends to avoid hitting the sway bar links and the spacers.

https://ironman4x4america.com/kdss-...ts-lexus-gx470-gx460-and-2010-toyota-4runner/

Treaty Oak Offroad also sell just the front passenger by itself (Also just bought that).

https://www.treatyoakoffroad.com/product/kdss-spacer-kit

 

I also had to cut my stock skid plate in the same position. But I'm also running both front and rear KDSS spacers. I backed out the shutter valves each a 1/2 turn after the installation and rocked the 4R back and forth the push fluid through the system. Sits much more level and I'm running the ICON Stage 7 suspension.

 

Noticed the sway bar bushing pinched in your LCA bracket. Mine is doing the same thing and actually "popped" out during a hard turn with articulation on the Mogollon Rim last year. I was able to trail fix it with no issues and replace the stock bushing without any problems. So, even in the front I'm not sure if I want to keep the KDSS spacer in as it seems it pushes down on the sway bar (with KDSS matching it's level) causing the ends to rotate upwards and the sway bar to become misaligned with the LCS mount.

 

I also had to trim my skid plate on the cylinder side. I gave it some room. Passenger side I just trimmed the inner lip. I also used 1” spacers to drop the rear of the skid plate to match the diff skid plate.

 

I never noticed the pinched bushing, thanks for pointing it out. I never even knew that could be an issue, I'll keep an eye on it.

I really wanna see the articulation differences with and without the spacer. Hopefully, Tinkerer's Adventure does a comparison one of these days. If not, I might use this one ramp near my house and find out myself.

 

hey all, i decided to install my TOO front KDSS spacer, i wanted to see what if any differences could be observed.

TL DR summary, no difference

i did measure passenger front at full droop, 25" from wheel center to fender both before and after, which i didn't expect. then i did an assortment of flex tests in the driveway, and again, really no differences noted. i will say compared to wheeling pics, i don't get the front wheels fully stuffed no matter what i do at home, so maybe more measurements can be taken on the next off road adventure.

i went for a test drive and i'm trying to determine if i detect less "lean" to the right in my vehicle and perhaps there's a slight difference, but again, we're talking 1/4" here so not sure what i've lost or gained.

i did have to cut a small notch in the skid plate on the passenger side. seems to clear. i'll report any differences next time i take her out!

 

This guy just did a very thorough evaluation of KDSS and droop and spacers. Very impressive to be honest. At 8 minutes is when he talks about front suspension with droop and KDSS.

It appears that the passenger side droop limitation happens with KDSS when BOTH the driver and passenger wheels droop at the same time. I’m guessing you have better droop in that situation with your new spacers but not sure… but it appears that when the passenger wheel is dropped by itself, it can get full droop even without a spacer.

so I suspect you’ll get better off-road performance when high speed desert racing but not rock crawling with your spacer.

https://youtu.be/Ueshf401B0k

 

Funny, I just watched that video 4 Days ago and is what inspired me to install the front spacer.

He says that effectively the spacer should let that side droop further, but since he doesn't have a spacer to actually compare it's just a guess. I even commented to this and I do hope he gets his hands on a front spacer to do a before and after video.

I trust his measurements way more than mine

 

Are you measuring passenger droop one wheel at a time or when they’re both hanging?

 

It was both hanging... I should have lifted up the driver side with the passenger side at full droop to see it push down...

 

Try gradually lifting, not in full. As the video show KDSS work the negative way loosing articulation when the opposite tire is push further up after some level. And rear seems to be having less flex as per video anyways and that is what I faced too. I started my video on KDSS to show more flex and end up having less flex so ended my video planning to do another video on trails. I should have tested front first, else my video started like it gives more articulation and test showing less articulation since I tested only rear. I guess my brain was tired after train run and trying to do a video in last minute..


Also consider after market KDSS overriding system. This will allow to override KDSS not to give a non rough ride / jarring like feel. This is just an example as this is local to us to buy. There is another brand if I'm not mistaken.

 

lol now I’m totally confused…

oh wait! Maybe the sway bar is running into something else and preventing the droop???

 

So right now, my sway bar is pushed farther down, possibly due to the ICON lift or possibly due to the KDSS front spacer and pinching the sway bar ends and bushings in the LCA. It may have given me a bit more droop on the passenger side but not sure the juice is worth the squeeze (literally) when it comes to consistent stress on the bushing and having to replace it every time I do an extended trip where I get flexy throughout the trail runs. I got lucky the first time when it just kind of "popped" out and instantly heard the metal on metal inside the LCA sway bar bracket and was able to find it for a quick trail fix. I'm going to jack it up again this week hopefully, go full droop with the spacer installed both tires then individually and then without the spacer. I'll look up this video too for reference.

For reference though, I did also turn my passenger ICON coilover 3 turns to help decrease the lean along with opening the shuttle valves and cycling the KDSS by rocking the 4R to help level the system as per Dr. KDSS's advise (not the coilover adjustment, just shutter valves). When everyone did their droop checks, did you have the vehicle running where the KDSS system has power or with the vehicle off? Did you place it in drive, chocked, etc to simulate driving on trail at slow speed? Just wondering since it wasn't talked about.

 

I did my KDSS with the vehicle off. I believe instructions say do not start vehicle while shutter valves are open.

 

I got that. I'm asking about determining droop though under normal circumstances (valves closed; normal config) but with the truck jacked and running, parking break set, chocked, etc. Your truck isn't off when you're on a trail run and if you're testing the droop with KDSS, should you not attempt to make the test to as close to real trail conditions as possible? Will the rams actually fully extend on their own when the truck is off? Just asking to better understand how everyone is establishing a droop test as it were.

 

So have you noticed the ends of your sway bar not being aligned anymore with the sway bar bushing and bracket? Mine no longer lines up and seems that nowhere is there an explanation if it's from the lift and how KDSS is compensating or if the front spacer is pushing the sway bar further down causing the sway bar ends to turn upward pinching the bushing in its LCA bracket.