Winch placement

Any big negatives having the winch on the rear side vs the front? Warn makes a portable mount for their Zeon 10S that would let you attach it to the 4R hitch receiver. I would just need to make a long battery cable from 1-0 or 2-0 welding cable to reach the battery. And I wouldn't have to carry the extra weight around most of the time. As a bonus the winch and cable could easily be moved to my tractor for pulling fallen trees that I can't reach with just a grapple or my mini excavator.

 

Honestly the winch makes more sense to me on the back. It's intended for self recovery, and generally if you get stuck you want to pull yourself out, not in. It's just kind of become a thing that winches are permanently mounted to the front but realistically I think you'd get more solo use out of one mounted on the back. Of course the ultimate would be to just install a hitch up front and be able to move it as needed.

 

Glad someone is willing to state the unpopular thought but the more correct thinking.

I have a friend with a Sequoia and he has a front mount hitch with the stock front bumper. He moves his winch from hitch to hitch as needed when riding solo. All he did was add beefier and longer battery cables. People give him crap for having to move it from one hitch to the next due to the weight, but hes never totally stuck either...

 

I just feel like winches in the front is a "check out ma overlanding shit" kind of thing. Full disclosure, both my trucks have winches in the front and I like them... but I can be honest about it. Although with a snatch block (or 2) and some ingenuity they are certainly still useful for self extrication.

Of course the real broverlander off roaders have a permanent winch in the front and the back. And maybe the sides, too. A quad winch setup. I gotta check with Clay Croft and see what's the current requirement for driving on a dirt road.

 

LOL... hell of a meme......

Meanwhile Australians looking at us like

 

I've had my Warn 8500 cradled to mount front or back of my 2003 Sequoia and my 2016 4R XP. The times I've needed the winch the rear mount was preferable. I knew I could get back the way I came and wasn't interested in continuously winching my way forward into the unknown. My 2022 4ROR hasn't been rigged but will be soon. I've about decided to forgo the front mount this time as the hitch mount cut into my forward clearance without regard to the winch being present. If I could find a suitable front bumper that didn't intrude into the approach angle I will do that. If you go through the trouble and expense of a cradle mounted winch, I'd recommend the heavy duty cabling and solenoid from Warn and make the connections permanent. The solenoid is operated by a dash switch. 20' of wire running to the back with live current always present is an invitation to fire should a short develop in the high amperage cables necessary to power a winch hence the solenoid. Here's my winch wired and mounted for rear recovery out of mud that high centered my 4R in ruts that had firm higher ground between the ruts. My winch use is seasonable--spring and winter. The rest of the time when not in active use it sits tied down to the rear back seat in the cargo area or inside the house. The reason I tie it down to the rear seat is because of the potential for it to act as an 85 lb. cannon ball in the event of a bad collision. It was tied down when the wreck occurred which was a good thing.

 

Does anyone make a front hitch receiver for a 4R?

 

Yes, there are a few available on etrailer:

https://www.etrailer.com/Front-Receiver-Hitch/Toyota/4Runner/2013/31367.html?VehicleID=2013208562

EDIT: The main thing is figuring out where you want to trim on your front bumper so you can maximize your entry angle. Once you got that figured out, you're good to go.

 

That's what I'm talking about! You have a great setup there. Is there a plug under your rear bumper and what kind? I was just thinking of having a separate positive cable with high strength nylon sleeving that I can just run outside of the car/tractor when in use.

 

I used to be an insurance adjuster. You have no idea how many deaths occur when people get in accidents and their heavy gym equipment knocks them in the head. Its a real thing for sure.

 

Thanks!!

 

Anytime boss!

 

Yes, I use all Warn hardware, plugs, cabling for connections. Note the front mounted hitch with the female plug covered with a protective plug on my red 4r. The hitch is from etrailer but it cuts into the approach angle. Also the recommended hitch from etrailer had to be flipped upside down to be mounted. My mechanic knew what he was doing and had mounted an etrailer hitch to my Sequoia without having to flip it. If I could find a bull bar/bumper with a 2" hitch up higher, that would be perfect. I may have to find a fabricator to make my dream come true. An Oregon based bumper manufacturer made a gen. 4 bumper but not gen 5. He decided to concentrate efforts on Ram and F150 trucks.

 

God bless that’s the ugliest bumper I’ve ever seen

 

Dogs, wrenches, jacks, tool boxes, etc. are all potential shrapnel in a wreck. Gil

 

Yep. A smaller one is my preference. Gil

 

Another advantage of the cabling system by Warn is their jumper cables which plug into the bumper plug set up. They come in handy. Gil

 

Certified Moose Assassin

 

At least you got some protection. People think metal bumpers are jokes till they hit a pack of feral hogs on the trail.

Trash or get trashed.

 

When you're 4 hours into a trail, you realize, there's only one way to go, and that is forward. This is especially true after stacking lots of rock to get over and down things.

3 friends of mine and I did a hard trail down in Arkansas' Ozark National Forest late last year. At one point I got stuck on a root ball and needed to use my winch. My buddy offered - I could pull you backwards. I was like - what's the point we still need to go forwards.

There's really no turning back at that point in the day. We were closer to the end of the trail than we were the beginning of the trail. Either way will be difficult. We know what we did to get to this point, do we really want to repeat that?

After I winched myself over the obstacle, the Jeep behind me hit the same root ball and also had to winch over it. The following 2 Jeeps put a Maxtrax down and were able to get over it without winching.

I've contemplated hitch mounted winches in the past and realized.
1. Winches are heavy. When you're stuck do you really want to mess with getting that HEAVY SOB attached?
2. When off-roading with groups - most of the time the only way to go is forward.
3. When off-roading with groups, someone behind you can either pull you or winch you backwards.
4. Hitch mounted front bumpers are rare. Those curt style hitch mounts kill your approach angle.
5. Hitch mounted winches are really only beneficial when off-roading alone.

If y'all are having difficulty finding others to go off road. I recommend Facebook. Create a bogus screen name if you are paranoid. Find and off road club and join it. Otherwise find an Overland Group and join that. There are 1000's of people that would love to join you on an off road adventure.

Friends of mine started a Facebook Off Road group called the Mark Twain Mafia with 2 members. I quickly went to 1500+ members. Reason for our success? We have off road trips weekly.

At the end of that 8 hour trail we were all like holy shit we're not doing that one ever again! Then we slept on it - yep that is going be a Mark Twain Mafia trail.

 

The rear is perfect for self recovery. A hitch mounted winch plus a front mounted hitch receiver is the most versatile option.

That said, mine is in my front bumper, and I have self recovered with it without issue.

I think it comes down to if you plan on backing out of the trail, or want to get past an obstacle and continue ahead. In my case, the latter is usually my preference, unless the trail ahead is even worse or unknown.

 

One of the slickest front hitch mounts was a diy job I saw on an online site that I failed to bookmark and can no longer locate. The man temporarily removed the plastic bumper cover and attached a hitch to the front frame cross member, reattached the cover with a hole big enough in the cover to allow installation of his cradle mounted hitch. He made a plug of the removed plastic to conceal the receiver hole when the winch wasn't installed. His work didn't appear to affect his approach angle. As I noted earlier, my Etrailer front hitches on both of my Toyotas did impact approach angle and I often had to remove mud, etc. from the receiver's hole. (If anyone has the link to the diy job above, I'd love to have it.) I understand the weight issue concerns. My cradle mounted winch weighs 85 lbs. with the synthetic rope, a savings of between 15-20 lbs. from the steel cable system. I can manage it adequately by myself. I don't think I could manage a 10K or 12K cradled winch easily (if at all) by myself. I don't look for difficulty driving my 4R in the woods and if it looks bad and I can't go around it, I turn around. My approach to a 4x4ing is more chicken-like rather than Zen-like. It's not the journey for me; it's the destination (within limits). My history of 4x4 ownership for the past 45 years has simply been a means to drive to hunting and fishing locations that a family sedan or 2X truck can't reach. I don't see me into rock crawling or deliberately off-roading in a group. That's a matter of preference as I am looking for solitude and not companionship in the woods. This is not criticism of others with different attitudes; it's my idiosyncrasy. I had a permanently mounted front winch on a jeep pick-up. My 2003 Sequoia was initially rigged for rear take out. I eventually added the front hitch and electrical wiring. After having had experiences both ways, I am more inclined to stick with the rear mount and forgo the front hitch mount unless I find a method that doesn't impact my approach angle or significantly affect the weight of the front end. Regardless if permanently on the front or cradled for the back and/or front, it becomes a matter of personal preference and compromises. Gil

 

Flipside - you're in the desert, on a dry lakebed, and you drive into a not-dry section. Front axle is buried, only way is back, and you need to bury a land anchor to winch yourself out the way you came. Happened to me more than once. By myself.

Point is, build the vehicle for the terrain and style of offroading you plan to do. I'm always by myself because nobody wants to stop 20x to take photos.

 

LOL.... reminds me of Crossfit!!!

"I just puked my guts out and I am dizzy!! See you guys tomorrow!!!!"

 

Yep, In Arkansas you can recover and go both front or back on trails. In Colorado and Utah, many trails are one-way or are just a PITA to go backwards (Red Cone comes to mind)

 

This company makes them for the 2nd gen Tacoma:
https://www.4xinnovations.com/2005--2015-Tacoma-Front-Hidden-Hitch-Receiver_p_26.html

CBI at point offered a front hitch mount for the 5th Gen 4Runner. They discontinued it.

 

I've seen people mount a rear winch in the rear bumper, but I think most people don't do that because there aren't a lot of aftermarket mounting options available. Maybe one day they'll become more prolific.

I heavily contemplated building a front receiver and getting a winch/cradle so I could swap back and forth. My 4Runner is my daily though so I worried that if I went out I would decide to leave it at home instead of bring it with me and then of course, that's when I'd need it. I preferred not to have the winch cradle sticking out the rear/front when just driving around and prefer a more stealth look for daily driving so I went with a hard mounted front winch. , but apparently they stopped. Most of the others I've seen mount low which would be no-bueno for me for clearance reasons.

I think a cradle mount is a great idea since it can go from vehicle to vehicle really easy.