Needle bearing...

Hello All,
So I picked up my new '22 on the day before Thanksgiving (SR5P) and while driving to and from places noticed a vibe/hum/noise....And the sound/vibe goes away in 4wd which pointed me google/this forum and learned about the TSB on the needle bearing. Did I tell you it has 100 miles on it?
I brought it back to the dealer Friday and thankfully the tech heard it to but they were swamped so going back to drop it off on Monday and pick up my little Prius rental! (on them of course)
According to the TSB they are told to replace the diff, not just the needle bearing. I just hope the part is here in the states and not have to be ordered from Japan.
I hope this is it for issues with this brand new 4Runner, I am a Toyota fan and always loved their reliability.
Just thought I would post this and see if anyone has any thoughts or words of wisdom they care to share.
Thanks for listening,
Dave

 

Wow, that's a radical fix if the bearing simply needs replacing.

 

That is what TSB calls for. Don't fool yourself thinking it's updated casting or diff because it is a same thing. Drive until get issue again and go with Aftermarket sleeve bushing instead of OEM roller bearing once out of warranty. G.L.

 

https://www.4runners.com/threads/needle-bearing-issue.8124/

It's a common issue, but still hit or miss whether it will come back or not. As mentioned above, if it keeps coming back, upgrade to the ECGS bushing.

Also; welcome to the forum!

Toyota did change the part number at some point. Although, I realize that doesn't necessarily mean they actually changed anything.

I had the issue right off the showroom floor. I had the diff replaced around 28K miles. What's weird is that I'm lifted since 29K, currently 68XXX miles and the bearing is still good. Maybe the bearing prefers a small lift.

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

That's the plan if it keeps happening but it is brand new so I would like to keep it stock for at least 500 miles or so. . I've been reading up on the ECGS so when and if the time comes, that is what I will do. Fingers crossed that Toyota has the piece in stock......

 

A Forum member here a while back guessed that about 30% of the 4R's show up with this needle bearing problem. Usually sooner than later. I just turned 9K on my 21' ORP with no problem. My 2010 FJ never experienced the problem (but others had) in 161,000 miles. So I guess it's just luck of the draw. With the ECGS fix, you would think Toyota would have noticed this by now. Strange. It would seem that auto manufacturers listen to everyone - except enthusiests.

 

Welcome from Wisconsin! I'm going with the ECGS bushing, we have the same symptoms and don't have time to play with th service depts., some who say they have never heard of this problem and can't find a TSB on the subject. Other than that, we love the 4Runner.... Enjoy!

 

If they validate that it's the needle bearing I personally would try and get them to install the ECGS bushing rather than replace the whole diff under warranty. Heck, honestly, even if you have to pay for the ECGS bushing and install you're looking at about $400 parts and labor max so I would go that route and just be done with it.

If you don't want to go that route, I would keep driving the 4R until such time as the dealer actually has the diff in stock ready to be installed... there's no urgency in the replacement of the needle bearing, it won't fail catastrophically and grenade the diff or anything (at least there have been 0 reports of that happening). I think I waited 3000 (?) miles after the noise / vibes started to replace mine.

Really other than the needle bearing I can't think of an issue I've had in any of my FOUR (sigh) 5th gen Runners going back to 2014 so once you get that handled you'll be good to go for a lifetime of ownership. I am 2 for 4 on needle bearings, too, BTW...2 trucks no issues and 2 trucks had the failure.

 

Well, I just dropped off my '22 with 140 miles on her for that elusive noise which everything I've read so far points to the needle bearing. When I told and showed the head tech the TBS he said it didn't pertain as it was dated 2019. Hmmm.... I then checked in with the service writer who stated they can't do anything until they find the noise and then call Toyota to see what they want to do, he said it may take some time for Toyota to get back to them. I told him I was quite frustrated, not at him or the tech, but that it's brand new! He understood my frustration but that was about all.
MeefZah, I would gladly ask the dealer to install the new ECGS but they won't even acknowledge the problem yet or even say, "OK, we'll look at that first".
So, at the mercy of the dealership service people, sales was good to deal with as we have purchased a few vehicles from them in the past but never had a service issue right out of the gate. We buy new cars so we don't have to deal with things like this.
Oh well, thanks for letting me vent, rant is over.

I will update when I get it back. For now I will drive the little Corolla they gave me......

 

Oh, I almost forget, when I nicely told the service writer about others on forums having the same issue with a fix noted, he brushed that off with something about forums not being able to be trusted to diagnose issues.
Well, I belong to a Yamaha Super Tenere forum, a BMW motorcycle forum and more than once I have learned how to maintain and install things with 100% success so I very much have faith in what I read in these forums. There is a wealth of knowledge on these and I appreciate everything I have learned from them.
Dave

 

Sorry your having that issue. Especially with a new truck. Personally I’d go for ECGS bearing. I had the same issue and decided to do the fix myself with the ECGS bearing. It worked great and never a second thought since.

 

^^ This ^^

I had the issue from new and drove ~28K miles before having it replaced.

Just have them order the part, and bring it in when the part comes in. They will give you a loaner for the day if needed.

 

Update.
Service writer from dealer called to say Toyota is shipping a rear driveshaft to install, and I quote, "to start there". It's what the Mother Toyota tech says to try. It's four days away.......so four more days without my new 4runner. He said they listened to it while up on the lift with a stethoscope and heard the noise on the drive shaft.
I'm not a mechanic and only going by what I heard in my 4R with and without 4wd engaged and from reading all about the needle bearing, I don't think it's the drive shaft. Not upset with the dealer as he said they have to follow what Toyota says to do......but wtf!!

 

Weird. I don't believe I've heard of any issues with the drive shaft before. Hopefully it's the culprit.

What loaner did they give you?

Edit: keep track of how many days they have it, etc. Just in case you got a lemon.

 

Yeah, I don't see it being the driveshaft, but I'm just a retired old man. Anyway, yes I am keeping track of everything. They gave me a Corolla LE. It's a power house!

 

This would worry me sounds like guessing to me and they're throwing parts at it. Honestly if it was the rear driveshaft the noise would be there all the time when in motion not just in 4wd. This alone points to front axle. Doesn't make sense. But it's warranty so nothing lost. I was under the impression that this needle bearing issue had been resolved for '22 models. So far my '22 ORP has been fine but it only has 550 km. on it so time will tell along with this post.

 

Good point. By them keeping it, they have established there is a problem. When you get it back and still have the problem, they get another try. If they dont get it by the third try, in some states, that is enough to claim lemon.

Not that I think the car is a lemon (its probably is just the needle bearing). But them knowing you are keeping track of fix attempts and days out of service, should reduce the amount of dicking around they do.

For my intermittently loud needle bearing, I still havent decided if I want to go through the warranty song and dance, or just get the plain bearing replacement and do it on my own….

 

Another update:
Dealer just called, they're giving me back my 4R as there are 9 driveshafts on order in this area and Toyota doesn't want to pay for a rental for the next two weeks or so because they are back ordered. He said it's not a safety issue. WTF!!!!!

 

So you are waiting on a part that probably won’t fix the issue.

Perfect

 

Yep, that about sums it up.

 

So I went to the dealer as they requested to turn in my rental and I asked them if the driveshaft is out of balance, then wouldn't driving it cause some damage, maybe not now but down the road? He agreed and gave me a Sienna to drive.
Anyone with some mechanical know how, he said when the had the 4R on the lift with the weight off the tires, they could still here the noise after putting it into 4WD, just not as loud. That's why Toyota said to go with the driveshaft. Does this make sense?
On some other postings, I read some '21's have been getting new front diffs for the needle bearings, but my dealer said Toyota fixed them in '19 and that there isn't a TSB for '22's. Grrrrrr......

 

I just called Toyota and opened up a case file for any future reference to this issue. All I wanted was to have the dealer really look at the needle bearing issue and not fluff it off because it was a '19 TSB like they did. I know it was just a call taker I spoke to but she was very nice and will forward this to the dealer/Toyota liaison. We will see what happens next.

 

Sounds like your dealer is full of shit. It sucks that you're having this problem. Keep us updated on what they figure out.

 

Extremely unlikely the driveshaft is out of balance unless it's damaged or any weights may have come off leaving witness marks. If it was it would cause a vibration that would get worse the faster the driveshaft turns in whatever gear it happens to be in. Depending upon severity I don't believe any damage would occur. As a retired mechanic I can tell you that running it on a hoist is not the same as driving down the road. There's no load on the drivetrain and the drive angles are different. All I can say say at this point is I'd need to hear or feel it to offer an opinion. As a fellow '22 owner I'm very interested. Please keep us informed.

 

Redwood, thanks for you opinion. I agree that I would feel the vibration all the time while driving, not just intermittently if was the driveshaft. I will keep updating as I go along.

 

I bought my 2016 runner in July 2016 new. I inspected the complete vehicle. I greased the drive shafts ujoints EP GREASE and I put MOLY GREASE IN THE YOKES.
I did not see a small amount of the grease in the drive shafts ....
I change my oil and inspect the drive shafts .. grease them every yr........

 

Driveshafts on my '22 4runner have no grease fittings and can't be lubed unless you install aftermarket u-joints. My son's 2020 Tundra TRD PRO is also non-greaseable. From the best of my knowledge all Toyota trucks are now lubed for life u-joints for a few years now. I don't like it but it is what it is.

 

You sure about that?

 

Looking at the online Toyota 2022 Warranty and Maintenance Guide. In the “Additional Maintenance Items for Special Operating Conditions” sections for each service interval it has the standard text as previous years: “Driving on dirt roads or dusty roads:”
Or
“Driving while towing, using a car-top carrier, or heavy vehicle loading:”
- “Lubricate propeller shaft”

I’d think you’d have to have zerks to do that. That sounds like the same old drivetrain.

Was this verbal info from a dealer? Or did you crawl under and check for zerks yourself?