Oil change options

Why I use 5W-30 Full Synthetic Oil over 0W-20?

Here are some Direct Quotes from the Toyota Owner's Manual for the 2021 4Runner.
I've included the page numbers so you can easily follow along.

Pay special attention to the wording "HIGHER VISCOSITY may be BETTER SUITED".


Page 524 in the 2021 4Runner's Owners Manual (USA):

"The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a HIGHER VISCOSITY (one with a higher value) may be BETTER SUITED if the vehicle is operated at HIGH SPEEDS, or under EXTREME LOAD CONDITIONS."


Meanwhile in non CAFE countries like Puerto Rico, South Africa, Australia, etc:


Page 527 in the 2021 4Runner's Owners Manual (South Africa):

"If you use SAE 10W-30 or a HIGHER VISCOSITY engine oil in extremely low temperatures, the engine may become difficult to start, so SAE 5W-30 engine oil is RECOMMENDED."

"The 30 in 5W-30 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a HIGHER VISCOSITY (one with a higher value) may be BETTER SUITED if the vehicle is operated at HIGH SPEEDS, or under EXTREME LOAD CONDITIONS."

For higher temperatures over 0°F, they recommend using 10W-30.
For higher temperatures over 10°F, they recommend using 15W-40.

FYI: Cape Town, South Africa is about as far south as Dallas, Texas, if you flip the latitudes around. It can even snow there, so these are not very extreme areas of the world.


EXTREME LOAD CONDITIONS could be Overloading, Certainly Towing and/or Mountain Driving on Steep Grades.

HIGH SPEEDS could be driving long distances in the Summer Months at 80 MPH in Florida, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, etc.

 

This is what the manual states for the 2021 year 4runner: https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om-s/OM35B41U/pdf/OM35B41U.pdf

Btw. Page 523

The engine oil capacity is a reference quantity to be used when changing the engine oil. Warm up and turn off the engine, wait more than 5 minutes, and check the oil level on the dipstick. ■ Engine oil selection “Toyota Genuine Motor Oil” is used in your Toyota vehicle. Use Toyota approved “Toyota Genuine Motor Oil” or equivalent to satisfy the following grade and viscosity. Oil grade: ILSAC GF-5 multigrade engine oil Recommended viscosity: SAE 0W-20 SAE 0W-20 is the best choice for good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather. If SAE 0W-20 is not available, SAE 5W-20 oil may be used. However, it must be replaced with SAE 0W-20 at the next oil change. Oil viscosity (0W-20 is explained here as an example): • The 0W in 0W-20 indicates the characteristic of the oil which allows cold startability. Oils with a lower value before the W allow for easier starting of the engine in cold weather. • The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions.

The oil referred to in above statement is not a syntetic, you might need to ask the dealership they might charge you for syntetic; otherwise they might fill with conventional. Hence, nowadays most dealerships will use by default syntetic.

Btw. All combustion engines suffer the most with cold cranking and City driving.

 

I wonder why the oil filler cap doesn't say 0w-20 or 5w-30?

 

I did 10K changes in my previous 4runner with no issues. 3K intervals on synthetic is a waste IMO, but it's your money. Even my '85 Supra recommended 5K/10K with dino oil depending on conditions.

I'm only doing 5K on my '19 due to the fact that it's always loaded down and I beat the shit out of it occasionally.

If I went 3K I would be changing my oil 8× per year. However, if I only drove 6K miles per year, I would do 3K as it seems like a good practice to change it twice a year minimum regardless of mileage.

I bet the cap is different in Puerto Rico.



I really think anything we do within the manual's recommendations is fine. The 1GR is pretty tough.

We could debate oil viscosity until the cows come home, but I doubt anyone will change their position.

The fact that Toyota recommends higher viscosity for heavy load conditions and high speed driving has me debating whether to run 5W/30 in the summer months.

 

Your engine should last forever. Good on you.

 

Since I haven't had to commute to work for the last 2 years, I'm barely putting on 5k miles a year.

So I'm on the calendar maintenance interval rather than miles.

My only problem now is deciding who will get my Toy when I'm dust in the wind.

 

Are we going to go to the brands, now? Specs please... Lol and don't forget shearing & flashpoint zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Bananas do work if you out of engine oil in the jungle.

1. Amsoil Signature Series Synthetic Oil

2. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Full Synthetic Motor Oil

3. Mobil 1 Extended Performance Synthetic Motor Oil

4. Royal Purple High Performance Synthetic Motor Oil

5. Castrol Edge Full Synthetic Motor Oil

6. Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage Motor Oil

7. Liqui Moly Premium Synthetic Motor Oil

8. Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic Heavy Duty Engine Oil

9. Lucas Oil Synthetic High Performance Motor Oil

10. Red Line Synthetic Oil

11. Motul

 

Despite all of our differing views on oil choices and intervals, I think we should all be thankful that we are not having to compare notes on engine/transmission failures.

These threads could be much more somber having to address serious issues like engine, transmission, electrical or general power train.

 

Mine now says 5W-30.

I've used both Amsoil and Mobil 1 for over 40 years, but I'm impressed with the new Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Full Synthetic Motor Oil, which is made from pure Natural Gas.

 

I understand completely. My 94 Silverado was driven back and forth from CA to NV almost every weekend and I packed on over 30K annually as well. I just did a monthly oil change. Not a big deal at all. Crack open my Fumoto valve, spin off the filter, drain/fill the transmission pan (I TIG welded a bung). It was all of about 30 bucks or so.

We all have our own habits and routines for sure. All my 4 wheel vehicles get a 3K change with synthetics. Oil is cheap insurance. My reasoning is quite a bit different than most.

I will use my KTM 300 as an extreme example: I always would get flak from my riding buddies for using the expensive Motul 800 for premix. I had the water pump impeller explode and water hose blow 8 miles into a nasty single track trail. I rode my bike back to the truck bone dry of water with no ill effects to the motor. I pulled the pipe when I got home and the piston and cylinder were fine. Changed out the hose and impeller and rode it another season before selling it.

In a truck or other motorized vehicle that sees the open desert or dirt road that's 50 miles plus from the nearest pavement and no cell reception, I feel a lot more confident knowing I'm doing my due diligence to maintain my vehicles (2 or 4 wheeled).

In the 90's 3,000 mile oil changes and bi annual coolant/trans/diff/brake fluid service was the norm for our service trucks at work. Generators were serviced (oil/filter changes) every 200 hours and coolant changed annually.

I am of the strong opinion that these long service intervals outlined on the bottles of fluid and service manuals is 100% EPA/AQMD driven BS. Some manufacturers are even saying the transmission fluid is "lifetime". That is not true at all. It should say "lifetime of your 3 year 36,000 mile warranty"

I just picked up a bottle of Asian coolant for our 23 year old Lexus. Right on the bottle it says something like 150,000 mile or 6 years. If I did service intervals like that my radiator, water pump, freeze plugs, hoses and radiator would have failed 10 years ago.

 

Some synthetic oil companies say you can drive 20k or even 25k miles, but I'd stick to 5K miles or 6 months to be on the safe side.

I use the TRD Oil Filters, which is a synthetic fiber, rather than paper. I got a bunch of these at a dealership sale for $14 each.

Synthetic Oil is fairly cheap, about $22-$25 at Wallys for a 5 Quart Jug (double if you buy it in singles). The 4Runner takes 6.6 Quarts, so I bring 2 jugs with me.

The OEM Toyota Oil Filters are not meant to last too long, so the oil filter is going to be your weakest link in any long term oil change decision.

On my 2008 FJ, the oil filter was on the top so you could easily replace the oil filter at 5K without doing an oil change, just top off the oil when you changed filters.

 

I would have to disagree. Some folks have actually had their oil analyzed and decided to stick to longer intervals due to the results.

There is literally NO REASON to go shorter than the recommended intervals other than if you drive less than 10K miles per year, or just because you want to.

Keep in mind that oil has changed over the years. I'm not suggesting 10K dino oil changes. Just follow the manual.

Like I said earlier, nobody here is going to change their mind based on what someone else says here. Everyone should just do what they're comfortable with.

 

A lot also depends on what type of driving you do, city or highway and what percentage of each.

Scotty Kilmer says 2000 highway miles (60 mph) is about the same as 200 stop and go city miles (6 mph), especially if you are driving a taxi or police car in a place like NYC.

On some engines, they often figure the oil changes based on the hours on the engine, not the mileage. My son owned a 2008 Crown Vic Police Car (cool car) with an hour meter on the engine.

For me, I drive about 3 miles each way to work, sometimes below 0°F, and always up a 700' steep mountain road half the way home in 2nd gear.

I could consider that extreme driving conditions, so I follow the extreme oil change schedule, 5K miles or 6 months. Often its the 6 months.

 

I agree,

Nevertheless, neglect affect’s everything, which is the number one cause of failure; just generalizing.

 

Blackstone oil analysis does not tell the whole story. It cannot see the sludge buildup and plugged PCV valves which contributed to blown valve cover gaskets, rear main seals, extreme bearing/cam wear etc. Now if you are to get a Blackstone analysis at every single oil change from a brand new motor then you can see the wear with a lot more accuracy.

If I followed the manual my vehicles would have had so many unnecessary repairs it's not even funny. I see some guys never flushing brake fluid even at pad changes. Toyota brand is very forgiving but old habits don't die. LOL!!

That is for sure!! My personal habits of maintaining a vehicle would drive some people nuts. Just as following a manufactures recommendation of lifetime transmission fluid rubs me the wrong way.

Good news that cannot be disputed is the Toyota brand is give a decent service life regardless of how well you maintain it. It is up to the end user to decide if cost of fluids and maintenance wrenching time outweighs the repair bills and unpredictable breakdowns and downtime incurred for following the books lengthened service schedule.

It's cool though. There a a bunch of very reliable Toyotas on the road today that get beat to crap that prove me wrong time and time again. I'm just not willing to chance it.

 

At least we can agree to disagree without fighting about it.

I am 100% confident that I'll never have an issue caused by doing 5K oil changes, just like I never had issues doing 10K intervals on my last 4Runner. I'm sure if I had kept that one it would be pushing 400K and still running perfect as well. But, I just had to have that Tacoma.

 

For 55 years driving, racing, off-roading etc. I never had problems (racing is a demanding application, which differs). Following the same pattern of maintenance; sure, a half a Century ago oils where different, 1/1.5K miles at the most.

I have had 3 new Sequoia’s, a Solara and 2 4runners in the last 21 years, filter & oil change every 3/4K miles amongst other essential maintenance ahead of the required intervals stipulated by the factory; all together over 1.4 million miles, spouse, kids & me driving. Toyota makes outstanding vehicles. Hence, like with everything else, you need to take care.

In this time frame I had other brands as well, made by GM, no problems using the same pattern of maintenance over & over again.

Just saying, this works for me. We all do things different, which I respect.

 

Your doing it RIGHT !!

Wish I had your drive / time !!

Do all my own services on wife’s 16 Runner and my 18’ Tundra- 1st oil change @ 800miles just to get out any break-in shavings/ factory oil out and Mobil 1 in. Then 5k service with a check of everything thereafter

On a side note I’m a dirt bike/ ATV guy- may I ask what bike and location is in your avatar ??

 

All this debate about miles and viscosities, and I don't know if anyone said just to make sure its full. 10k miles even with some minor consumption and it could get low.

Not even gunna spill the beans on my routine or nuthin'...

Just keep it full ladies...

 

Heck man it's all good. Wrenching in the garage is actually a hobby and relaxing for me. And you are not doing it wrong. Just the fact you are conscious of maintenance and have a solid routine is a big plus.

That is my Beta 520RS it's near the high point of the fire road in Rowher Flats. Forgot the name of the trail going but it's a black diamond. Pretty easy going down a little rough going up. I miss my ATV. I used to have a KFX700 that I tweaked the carbs, exhaust and clutch springs/weights. It had Elka suspension and was a beast!!

 

All the other oils listed is easy to get specs for. Amsoil is not going to happen. They are very vague. Data sheets on any of their oils are non existent.

 

Just kidding around, all about personal preferences; some like blondes’ other brunettes, some reds, others like them all and don’t care about specs. lol

 

I like them all! But, I do care about measurements, which are kinda like specs.

 

All with you, no debate at all.

 

Speaking of which the 4Runner engine takes over 6 quarts. My 4.3 liter Vortec has only a 4.5 quart capacity. Kind of off topic but has anyone here converted their cartridge filter to a spin on?

 

I'll answer the OP question. I've been going to dealer, not very happy with the time I have to spend waiting...or cleaning up after them (they touch everything...knobs, handles, rub there dirty ass's on the seat and back of my leather seat)...then I spend 20 minutes wiping everything down. But I'm OCD! My next oil change is going to be a quick lube place. The place I go to is actually good. I bought the metal filter housing, and am going to have them put it in while they do the oil change. I'm not worried about going there. I drive in, sit in my car, watch them do the work, then leave. In and out!

Oh. I don't do my own oil changes anymore. If I do, I'll be hunched over for a day trying to straighten my back out.