Reading the tea leaves for the 6th Gen 4Runner

Just saw two interesting tidbits about the new Land Cruiser that may give us some clues about the next gen 4Runner.

Toyota is saying the new LR weighs a whopping 441 pounds less than before. We know it's built on their new TNGA body-on-frame platform. If the 4Runner also uses a version of this platform, which seems likely (for goodness sake don't let it be a crossover) then we may get some great weight savings too.

The other tidbit is that Toyota is replacing KDSS on the LR with something they call E-KDSS. Speculation is that this puts the hydraulic system on both axles. But time will tell. Hard not to wonder if the E stands for electronic.

 

Probably doing away with the hydraulics for electric motors. It already has hydraulics on front and rear for the current kdss.

 

Good point. And there's actually an explanation from Toyota about how it works -- with the "E" in fact being for "electronic."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZW_yzWgscI

Dunno if this is a total plus or has some downsides. But I'm optimistic about the BOF platform and weight savings.

 

Interesting on the 2 electric motor up front while the back has 1 electric motor and conventional solid link. I wish they had 4 electric motors instead to really flex the rear.

 

The 4runner will use a the TNGA-F platform. It will also be offered in a hybrid.

I find most interesting that this might be the last gen model (for the US) that is gas-powered version of the 4runner, since CA and other states are pushing laws for all-electric-only for new vehicle sales by 2030. CA has significant pull in this area with 40m population and huge amount of offroad enthusiasts. Ford already stated they are pushing for all EV by 2035, and other manufacturers are expected to follow suit.

 

I don't think we are seeing the last gas powered 4runner yet. Even if this next generation lasts as long as the current one, I don't think that we are seeing the last gas powered 4runner. But expect hybrid and fully electric options on the 7th gen. California's laws are purely aspirational, hybrids will be a stand in until battery technology stops being utter crap.

As for the near future I expect it to have a more aggressive and large grill (sadly), and updated interior with push button start. I have said it before, but I think Toyota should make an optional panoramic sunroof like they already did on the venza as a sort of throw back to when you could remove the roof on the 1st gen.

I can say its pretty much certain that there will be an 8 or 10 speed automatic only, the last manual 4runner destined for the US has been made, and it was made in 2000. I can also be certain that there will be a V6. Which V6? Likely the one that we saw on the LC300, the question is will it generate that much power or will Toyota use a detuned version. It wouldn't surprise me if Toyota decided to offer a more fuel efficient engine on the 4runner, either part hybrid or a smaller turbo 4 cylinder.

I expect incremental size increases on the 6th gen 4runner, which is unfortunate because as a 3rd gen owner I think Toyota has made the 4runner too large. I expect Toyota to do something similar to what they did on the GR LC300 with the trd pro 4runners, different grill, with Toyota written out across like they do now.

The price is anyones guess. I guess that it will start around $39,999 (~3200 increase), with 4wd starting at $43,000. I don't know what the TRD pro on the 6th gen will be, but it could be significantly more expensive if Toyota decides to make it match the off road capability of the now defunct land cruiser.

 

I agree with a lot of what @Trekker said. There will still be a gas powered motor option..........but I don't think it will be a V6. It would be nice, but I have my doubts. I'm curious as to hear your thoughts @Trekker on why you're certain there will be a V6?

I'm thinking Turbo 4 and a hybrid option.

It'll still be body on frame and yes, a lighter frame with a lighter motor will provide some weight savings for better fuel efficiency and power. Not much better though.

 

The current 4runner can tow 5000 lbs. A lot of its competition can also tow about that much. Putting a turbo 4 cyl would not be great for towing. You can tow with a 4 cyl, but I think it makes more sense that Toyota offers a V6, even if it is an option.

 

I would be very surprised to see a 4cyl turbo. I am thinking a V6 hybrid and a V6 turbo or a more powerful regular V6.

 

I agree. I don’t think we will see a I4 turbo. I think there will be two engine options. A TTv6 as the higher spec, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a reworked 1GRFE mated to an 8 or 10 speed (I hope I’m wrong there but, I would take that over the I4 in this case).

 

I’d be very happy to keep the current engine and overall size and layout, add a strong 8 or 10 speed tranny, put it all on a lighter but stiffer BOF, and maybe eek out some additional weight savings plus aerodynamic improvements. That sounds about perfect to me. I’d buy one of those.

 

No direct injection please, if its direct injection only the engine is garbage

 

Agreed. None of that (though Toyota and Subaru used a combo direct / port system on the BRZ/86, specifically to avoid the carbon buildup that comes with direct injection. Dunno how well it works…)

Anyway, no turbo either please. The engine is fine the way it is. We can improve MPG in other ways.

 

I would rather drove a slow vehicle with poor acceleration than one that is configured with one of those mileage multipliers that they call turbos. I never understood people who were upset that their off road SUV didn't handle like a car. If you want fast acceleration buy a sedan or a rav4 prime.

It seems likely that the next engine wont be naturally aspirated. Are there any vehicles that toyota has introduced recently that sported a naturally aspirated V6?

 

Agreed. The current Highlander has a NA V6, but with the pressure for better MPG it seems unlikely the 4R will avoid a turbo and / or hybrid. I’m just saying what I’d like to buy, not what I expect Toyota will do.

Speaking of MPG, saw an interesting article today saying that the CAFE formula has, ironically, incented auto manufacturers to make bigger vehicles. Because the required MPG drops with the footprint of the vehicle. This was specifically the case in Toyota’s decision to abandon the smaller / two seater Tacoma. Because the powertrain is the same, selling only bigger models gives them more breathing room on CAFE.

 

Man you guys are optimistic.

There's no way the 6th gen gets a TT V6. That's what the full sized Tundra is getting. No way they are putting that in a mid-sized, unless it's a Lexus.

It would be nice to get a single turbo V6, but I don't think that's realistic for the 4Runner. Since they'll have a hybrid option, I'm thinking they'll have an I4 that works with the hybrid or an I4 you can slap a turbo on if you don't want the hybrid option.

If it gets a NA V6, then it'll most likely get the 3.5L Tacoma V6 and trans. Does anyone really want that?

I'm sticking with I4 turbo since they will be cutting some weight on this pig.

The 4cyl ecoboost tows 5,300lbs. That's competitive for this class.

 

I could see Toyota going with the same power train currently used in the Venza. I think that any vehicle we use to draw predictions on the next 4runner HAS TO BE USING THE TNGA PLATFORM. We can all agree that the next 4runner will be built on the TNGA plat form, so looking at what engines are currently used on TNGA platforms.

Rav4: Hybridized I4 engine
Venza: Hybridized I4 engine
Land Cruiser 300: 3.5 twin turbo V6
Tundra 3rd gen: 3.5 twin turbo V6 (not confirmed but it has historically shared the engine in the LC and what other engine is there)
Highlander: Hybridized I4 or a V6 (naturally aspirated)

The 4runner has always been somewhere between the Rav4 and the Land Cruiser. I hope that should it come down to those two options, Toyota goes towards a detuned version of the LC300 engine because I think attempting to power a modern 4runner is too much to ask from a 4 cylinder. But Toyota could always increase the displacement of one of their turbo 4 cylinders and slap that in the 4runner.

The Highlander might just be our savior. It is the only vehicle listed that comes with naturally aspirated V6 using the TNGA platform. Even better the highlander is one of Toyota's larger vehicles unlike most of the other vehicles. Also this generation of Highlander is debuted in 2020, so it still is an accurate representation of what engines we might see in future designs. The best thing we can hope for is that Toyota will use the same naturally aspirated engine found in the Highlander.

 

Interesting. As @Doglover2003 mentioned, KDSS already affects both axles. An electronic system could be pretty awesome.

 

You might be right. Toyota loves that 3.5L.

The 4Runner has always been more closely aligned with the Tacoma though, which will also be on the same TGNA-F platform at some point.

Not exactly sure what the difference is between the Highlander 3.5L and the Tacoma 3.5L, but a lot of people complain about the lack of low end torque in the Tacoma. Is it the same thing with the Highlander? You'd have to think Toyota has heard those complaints and won't add that motor to the 4Runner..........a vehicle that has traditionally been heavier than both the Tacoma and the Highlander.

 

We did just that, 4Runner traded in for the rav4 prime. But not due to acceleration, as the runner was supercharged, but the rav4 prime will accelerate really fast.

 

6th gen will be built on TNGA-F truck platform.

I could be mistaken but I think the Tundra, Tacoma, 4Runner, and Sequoia are the only vehicles left in Toyota's lineup that are not on the TNGA program yet.

• TNGA-B (unibody; subcompact and subcompact crossover SUV)
• TNGA-C (unibody; compact and compact crossover SUV)
• TNGA-F (body-on-frame; mid and full size truck, mid and full size SUV)
• TNGA-K (unibody, mid and full size car, compact/mid-size crossover SUV)
• TNGA-L (unibody, full size luxury car, grand tourer)
• TNGA-N (unibody, full size car)
• e-TNGA (modular; battery EV)

Note, TNGA-F is not compatible with a V8, according to reports.

 

New Tundra interior spy shot, giving clue to possible 4Runner interior?

Shifter knob looks kooky.

 

The one takeaway I have from all this 6th generation talk is that I'm very happy I bought my 2019.

 

I'm glad they kept some physical switches, but still too much piano black.

 

Article talking about Toyota's fight against EVs and close-door meeting with US gov officials to argue hybrid is the way to go, not electric.

Audi A1 To Be Cancelled As New Emissions Regulations Kill Small Cars
https://jalopnik.com/audi-a1-to-be-cancelled-as-new-emissions-regulations-ki-1847361258

for TLDR

Sounds like Toyota bet the house on hybrid tech, but recent major push by gov to go all electric and ever-tightening regulations are going to wreck Toyota's bottom line very soon.

 

At this stage, hybrid IS the way to go, at least versus electric. There's not the infrastructure nor the supply capacity to go all-electric all the time, and it'll be years before there is. And electric 'fill-ups' still take too long. A hybrid can get great fuel mileage, plus participate in charging its own batteries. AND can run when the batteries are dead.

 

Just filled our rav4 prime for the second time yesterday, we went about 1850 miles on the tank. Toyota just needs to produce more models in with a hybrid and electric like the rav4 prime.

Toyota has been pushing the hydrogen stuff, but no one wants to bite. And Toyota is not wrong, they continue to discuss the lack of infrastructure for the big push to go all electric.

 

Bill passed in June for $715b for infrastructure, and $4b of that is specifically for installing thousands of new charging stations across America. No matter what, EV lifestyle is coming faster than most people think.

Seems like Toyota is one of the few fighting the heavy EV push. Will the 6th gen be the only only hybrid version before Toyota is forced to go all EV? I hope not.

 

I think Toyota is making a foolish decision to hassle the government about hybrids being the way to go, and coming out against EV. That sort of headline tarnishes reputations, Toyota doesn't want that image. Hybrids are okay for now, but long term they don't make sense at all. There are a few issues with hybrids long term:
1. You have to maintain infrastructures for both electric charging and gasoline
2. Hybrids have an electric motor and a gasoline engine along side it, this adds complexity and cost at the expense of reliability
3. They are better for the environment than an ICE but they still have more emissions than EV
4. You lose most benefits of full EV like low maintenance cost because you still have an engine to look after on a hybrid, and you still have to go to the gas station too

 

I just passed a new mini-van on the road, it was taking up most of my lane because not much of a shoulder. When I passed I didn’t see anyone. I did notice the little charging door was open. I think he ran out of juice?