Puzzled old man

Hello, 4runner folks!


My thanks to whoever runs this forum. Its arrangement, for such a large body of knowledge is amazing!


I started looking for advice/help on my 95 4runner 3vze when, after installing a long block, the new engine on start up will not idle, and it has no power. Here are my questions:


I may have mixed up the cam gears. Are they the same? If not are they marked?


I jumped my diagnostic port, and the engine will not run at the 10 BTDC mark. It will run very roughly at around 30 TDC. ( the check engine light is blinking)


When I installed the timing belt and idlers, the belt I am using has a crank indicator line which I lined up with the little divot on the crank pulley at the bottom position. The cam pulleys were lined up with the marks on the upper backing tins.

After struggling with this for a couple days, I realized it was time for back to basics so I pulled the top belt cover and verified TDC on #1 cylinder. (Used the compression tester piping and my finger to Verify compression)


Now I am scratching my head.


With the top belt cover pulled, #1 cylinder at TDC, and marks lined up with the cam gears, the crank belt mark is no longer on the bottom of the crank. It should not be visible, but is.

The dilemma is, is my OCD getting in the way of knowing that with the marks lined up and #1 cylinder being at TDC my belt position is correct?


What other cause would not let me time this engine


Any help, advice or suggestions is appreciated.

 

Hi:
The cam pulleys are identical with a flange on one side, and flangeless on the other.
They are installed with the flange facing front on the driver side, and facing rear on the passenger side.
If you used an OEM Toyota belt, it will probably have white stripes on it to give you a visual aid when initially aligning the cams.
There is a divot on the crank pulley that has to line up with a mark on the oil pump body (12 o'clock position) at the same time the two cam pulley marks line up (12 o'clock) with the marks on the cam back plates.
When you achieve this, rotate the motor by hand, plugs out to make it easier, TWO TIMES and see if the three pulley marks line up again. Pay no attention to the white lines, as they won't line up again until the motor
rotates 34 times. This is by design.
Only use the mechanical marks to check the pulley alignment from then on.
The V6 is a non interference motor, so you don't have to be concerned with valve and piston collisions if it isn't in alignment.
After rotating it twice, align the crank pulley with the mark on the oil pump, and observe the cam positions.
If one, or both are out of position, adjust accordingly.
Always use the crank pulley position at its mark on the oil pump to set the cams.
Always rotate the crankshaft pulley twice back to its mark to check, after making an adjustment to cam pulley position.
Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
Please post your results.
Good Luck
Art.

 

Wow, I like to think I'm mechanically inclined, but this depth of knowledge is something that I will never have. A detailed, knowledgeable question, and an equally detailed, equally knowledgeable answer. Hats off to both of you. Hope you get your truck fixed, Waynes! Welcome to both of you...

 

I know, right? It's almost like aliens landing, and having a discussion about interstellar warp drive technology...

 

Made me chuckle

 

Fellas,
After rechecking the pulley marks, (which are correct, if I'm not blind) the Snap-on Brick is now throwing a no rpm detected code. The only part I have not changed in this build contains this sensor. The distributor. After all the expense what's a couple hundred more? I did consult the owner of the brick, (my bro in law) and he informed me that due to the age and mileage (340,000) that the symptoms could easily be said device, so one is coming. I will still need to calibrate the throttle position sensor and install a formed hose that I ordered for the throttle body cooling circuit. Just plain hose was pinching off. When I fire it up I will report what is found. hopefully she will run smooth.

 

Best of luck to you! I’be got a 5vzfe with the heads off sitting and might have some milkshake so kudos to you for an in-depth question. I wouldn’t know where to begin but I wish you the best I your endeavor

 

Art,
I may have to pull the belt again. I do not think I installed the LH cam gear flange out. Is this going to mess up the timing, or wear the belt prematurely? Still have not ran the motor...

 

Over the years as a maintenance man I have come to the knowledge that attitude and determination go a lot farther than intelligence. I'm far from the sharpest knife in the drawer. The one attribute that I have ALWAYS had is, I never give up. You only fail when you stop trying. Relentless perseverance. Documentation, and realizing the only reason this stuff seems complicated is the fact that these devices are simple systems that are layered together making them look complicated. One step at a time.
I say that, but will admit to throwing my crappy timing light very forcefully in the trash can a couple days ago. I can laugh now but boy, was I pissed! I have been tinkering on this since I retired in Dec. !!! LOL!

 

I do not think I installed the LH cam gear flange out

Hi:
When you say LH, do you mean driver side, or passenger side?
How are you looking at the engine?, from the driver seat looking forward, or standing in front of the radiator looking back.
I always say driver or passenger, so there is no room for confusion.
I personally don't think it makes a difference which faces front or rear, just as long as they are opposite of each other.
The reason for the flange orientation is to ensure proper belt tracking. It has nothing to do with timing, or the pulley position relationship.
As the rotating components wear, the belt will start to migrate forward or back as a result pf this wear.
If it wasn't restrained by the flanges, it could start to ride over the edge of the unflanged pulley, which is very sharp, resulting in almost insantaneous shredding.
A secondary benefit of this flange orientation, is to provide a easier point of sliding the belt on to the passenger side pulley, prior to pulling the tensioner pin.
Hint: when torquing the cam pulleys to 80 ft. lbs., don't count on the tight belt to restrain the cam from turning as you are torquing up to spec.
This will seriously weaken the belt teeth that are holding the cam stationary, and will lead to premature failure.
If you have already done this, then my advice is to replace the belt with a new one, preferably OEM.
There is a profile cast into the camshaft that can be used with a big adjustable wrench rested against a block of wood as a restraint.
The wood is so you don't bugger up the valve cover rail surface with the wrench.
Also, what are you using for reference? Is it a Haynes manual, or another aftermarket publication?
If so, see if you can obtain a Toyota shop manual, and put any other pub in the same place as your timing light.
Proceed slowly, think things out logically, and you will be successful.
You are already 7/8ths home, having the stones to tackle this in the first place.
Post results
Good Luck
Art.

 

Art,
I gave up on the After-market publications already. Work good for TP if you wrinkle the pages. My older brother is a hoot owl that likes a good on line challenge, and he found an archive somewhere or other with most of the shop manual.
As for the LH, it's always drivers side no matter where you are standing. Pop taught us that 50 years ago.
I made a 'special service tool' out of a chunk of strap and a pin that works on the harmonic balancer as well as the cam gears.

Progress report, I pulled all the parts off of the front of the motor all the way to the crank pulley. Then turned the LH cam pulley around. I have aligned all of the marks, It appeared to off one tooth between the cams. I think... I hope... It will be right this time, as I will crank it around and double check the compression stroke at TDC and then check all of the marks again.
Thanks for the help!

Wayne

 

Wayne:
I was pleased to read that you and your brother benefitted from what your father taught you back in the day.
I am 81 years old, my pop was born back in 1896. I am an only, and came to light in 1939.
Pop was a mechanic at a garage that serviced old Mack chain drive transit mix concrete trucks.
Like you, I benefitted from his wealth of mechanical knowledge. He died in 1982
After school and during the summer, I would hang out in the shop with him and the other guys and soak up the experience.
During high school, I got mixed up in the California hot rod craze, and me and my buddies built some god awful creations. They were unsafe even standing still.
I figured that I owed you a little insight to me, that I just wasn't some hack desk jockey trying to show off what he thinks he knows.
I didn't have a handle on the depth of your mechanical aptitude, that's why I got a little preachy explaining things.
Now that I know that you made the "special tool", I feel that we are on equal terms. That's what I did also.
I still have all of my fathers tools, half of them are home made. He was a wonder.
I think you are on the right track with the pulley timing.
As always, Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
Good Luck.
Art

 

Art,
Our fathers were poor, for the most part. To thrive required drive and tenacity. Pop taught me how to chase a buck, construction, wrenching on our own junk,etc. Mom taught me about Jesus and how to be strict but fair. Somehow my kids have got this. I turned what Pop taught me into a career as a industrial maintenance man. Got one kid 40yrs and one 22yrs and three in between. All do ok.
It good to converse with someone slightly older, well versed in how the world really works. You know, hamburger comes from a slaughtered cow, that type of thing.
Back on the 4runner project, I have this issue. The belt I got from the rebuilders is marked LH, RH, and a line for the bottom of the crank pulley. When I assembled the belt section the first time I went by the lines, did not check the marks. These marks are like done in house by the builders. I'm gonna try to send some pics from my phone...

 

I know people involved in a process will make mistakes. This one has cost me days and money trying to figure out what I did wrong. All I did was trust that someone marked a belt right. This time I will time by the marks on the machine. I will have to give the rebuilders my 2 cents though... Ill know for sure when I get it back together... Then I will call. And will be nice!

Art, thanks for your encouragement!!

Wayne

 

Well... Sometimes I am my own worst enemy. When doing the EGR delete, I pulled the vacuum pot off of the front of the plenum. It is not a blind hole. I had made myself a big vacuum leak. Put a bolt in it and Walla! Smooth as silk. At least I found it and not one of my boys.. We are a little competitive!

 

The 3VZ-E is non interference engine, so you can remove the dowel pins that key the pulleys to the cams and this makes setting the timing a lot easier as you do not have to fight the pulleys being influenced by the valve springs. Once the marks are lined up and you have rotated the crank two times to get the tension right remove the bolts and align the slots and slide the dowels back in, replace the bolts and torque them to spec and your done.

 

Well, that 4runner looks just like mine! My 95 is white as well. Now have 1800 plus miles on it and running awesome.

 

Sorry Waynes, That engine hoist shot was in 2018, The front looks like this now with lots of other mods to boot. See my 2nd Gen built thread for details.

Anza Borrego earlier this month of May2021 on top of Blow sand near Ocotillo. Trying out my Pro Comp coils and Blazeland front suspension. Oh Such fun!...