Intermittent Stalling on 2020 (Limited) 4Runner

Does anybody else have a '20 4Runner that's stalling? The symptoms are suspiciously similar to the recalled '19 4Runner & '20 Tacoma for the fuel pump. It's been happening about once every 1K miles. The 2nd to last time I was going about 55 MPH up a mountain pass in a snowstorm on I70 & completely lost power in the left-hand lane. There was a smell, & the Malfunction Indicator Lamp came on -- DTC P1603 stored with FFD. The last stall also happened going up a slight hill but only 20 MPH w/ precipitation & gas w/o acceleration -- this time it didn't lose power as I let off the gas as the tachometer started oscillating btw. where I was driving (~3K) & 0 (this is how all the stalls have started). 2 dealerships have since test driven, unable to reproduce or see any fuel levels that are off. The 2nd dealership mechanic suggests replacing the fuel pump, but Toyota won't pay for it under warranty since the dealership can't reproduce it on command -- they put 80 miles on it, and not surprisingly, it didn't reproduce. They suggest driving until it gets worse. Toyota corporate won't help & suggested filing a Lemon Law case (I love me some beaurocracy). Does anybody have any ideas? I'm about to be living out of an Airstream I tow with this & feeling a bit uneasy about the prospect of stalling with 4K# behind me on the next mountain pass in a snowstorm.

I know relatively little about vehicle mechanics -- online searching has pointed me to these other potential issues (in decreasing order of likelihood): mass airflow sensor, throttle body/position valve/assembly/sensor, engine coolant sensor, fuel pulsation dampener, & primary wiring harness rubbing thru ignition coil wire insulation.

 

Bring it back to the dealer, complaining that the vehicle stalled out while driving without notice and almost caused an accident, specifically state that it’s unsafe to drive. Make sure document that it’s a safety concern. Those are the magic words that makes shit happen, if they ignore a safety concern and something happens they are fucked. Once “safety” becomes an issue things tend to move along a lot faster than “we can’t duplicate it”, which by the way is bullshit when there are faults stored to back up your claim.

Personally I’d refuse the vehicle back until there’s at least an attempted fix and tell them to contact Toyota corporate about making your payments on it until you get it back. Unless they word their repair order, a legal document, in a very specific way, an attempted repair legally acknowledges there is an problem with the vehicle and that’s the first step towards lemon law.

 

Thanks a lot, I'll try that. The dealer still has it & was going to look at something unrelated on it tomorrow. I've been searching for these kind of magic words. I've put a decent chunk of $ into it tho & would rather have a fix than pursue Lemon Law. I at least got a loaner vehicle from them they picked today but may try the payments route. I agree about the stored faults vs. duplication but hadn't previously found much leverage. Hopefully, mentioning safety concern tomorrow will help.

 

Long shot. Have you checked the battery cables for looseness? Computers hate disturbances in electrical continuity.

 

I haven't, thanks, and will.

 

Always document at the dealer, in writing.
I can’t believe Toyota won’t pay for a fuel pump, knowing they have issues.
I’d carry an odb2 scanner Bluetooth with me, maybe there are codes. Engine will stall without fuel, but won’t trigger CEL. Also, change the gas station for the next 3-5 fillups. I had a murano and a very nice gas station by my house. Friendly stuff. The car had major issues starting after filling up there. Went to the dealer, no codes, no errors, all good. As soon as I changed the gas station, all my problems suddenly disappeared. I reckon water in gas, probably condensation and badly maintained tanks.

 

Do a search for a TSB on fuel pumps; I just read this somewhere (I think under the 5th Gen forum) on this site. There are some known issues with stalling and fuel pumps I recall reading in the last few days.

 

It’s a recall. The dealer would absolutely know if it applied to his and the manufacturer is required by law to mail a recall notification to the customer.

 

This stalling recall is really BS---come on Toyota. Here is another link going back several years. Time to get their shizzo together here. Makes me nervous ordering one, hopefully they ordered the right part in 2021 (only takes a few years to correct huh). Thanks agent outside your are correct--recall I mispoke earlier saying TSB (probably more accurately defined as recall).

 

Great suggestions, thanks. I'll pickup the Bluetooth ODB2. On fuel, this happened on an extended road trip all over the western US. After the worst stall, I started using Premium, but it stalled again after.

 

The recall doesn't apply to my VIN (or any '20 4Runner AFAIK), but this prompted me to run a search & find https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2020/toyota-fuel-pump-recall-isnt-adequate-lawsuit.shtml which is interesting. Wonder if I have a Denso pump starting w/ part numbers 23220 or 23221.

 

Then you most probably are SOL and since Toyota wont do it, might as well change it yourself or pay for it.
Try to get some live data via ODB2 scanner and see if the fuel pressure drops in the lines, the scanner should be able to do that. I think the codes don't stay after a certain number of miles without issues. Your dealer is major ass as well. They KNOW.

 

I would call a local news station or email them; see if they would cover your story at the dealership lot. That might get some attention. Long shot but 100% of the shots you don't take won't go in

 

Ohh love this -- right up my alley, thanks.

 

Agreed. Oh trust me, if I get evidence of it being the fuel pump, I won't be the one paying for it to be replaced. Shocked to be treated like this after dropping $50K on a new vehicle less than 9 months ago.

 

Update: my fuel pump is Denso part number 23220-31430, which seems to be the issue from https://static.oemdtc.com/Recall/20V682/RMISC-20V682-0794.pdf, but the updated recall seems to still not cover the 2020 4Runner. My dealership (AutoNation) is refusing to file a warranty claim without being able to reproduce it. Toyota is refusing to warranty the fuel pump without the dealership telling them to. Does anybody have any friends at Toyota or AutoNation or any other ideas outside of calling other dealerships to see if they'll do it or contacting a lawyer?

 

As someone who has worked in th auto industry for 18+ years, I can confidently say Autonation is trash!

 

The mention of lawyer this early on in your fact finding will not be received well by Toyota. fwiw

What is the production date of your 4R. Early '20? If so, how early.

How did you verify your pumps part number? With your eyeballs or through research?

If, your 4R was an early '20 build? That helps your case.

If, you laid eyeballs on the part in question? That helps - pictures are better.

Produce all the above facts, along with the document you presented here, and no dealer in their right mind will shine you on any longer. jm2c

 

They don't even have a replacement for those of us on the recall list now.

I bet there is a supply issue with the pumps which is probably why its taking so damn long. Unfortunately I think you are going to have to wait. I'm sure yours will be added to the list sooner or later but still need to wait to get it fixed.

 

The vehicle is currently at the dealership. They pulled the part number for me. I don't have the manufacture date recorded & just asked them. I appreciate the advice.

 

Oh wow -- bummer. That's helpful, thanks. Is yours stalling (often)?

 

I've had 0 problems (knock on wood).

But I did get the notice like everyone else. And of course it says you will be contacted when a solution becomes available.

Lucky for me I don't drive mine often so its not a big deal to me. But I can see how it would affect those that DD it.

 

Thanks for the update -- I'd definitely appreciate finding out when they contact you!

 

So let me get this straight. The official document with the part number is confirming your bad pump. You have the issues happening. Toyota says no. LOL, I got better results with my GM dealer 10 years ago.
Another thing to do. Get a dashboard camera, they are cheap for the purpose. You should have one anyway, you only need to use it once. It will record non stop. Save that footage. Also, keep your cellphone close. Make a shortcut to start a video recording in one button. As soon as it happens, record it on your phone, the dashboard, describe what you see/feel on the video. Take 1-2 videos, plus the dashcam. This way they can see you are not running on empty.
Remember to make notes on file. All. The. Time. Save all receipts from eventual towing or other related issues.

 

They are saying no because he is not yet on the recall list. YET.

But even if he was on the list I bet hes gonna have to wait for a pump like everyone else.

 

LOL, yeah. After I found this out, I called Toyota back yesterday evening, asked for a (new) supervisor, & walked him through this. After about the 3rd time going thru it all, he had a bit of a light bulb moment, realized he's authorized to work in my region, & agreed to call the AutoNation service manager Monday. I contacted the service manager to prime him -- I bet if the manager tells Toyota to replace the pump they will (put me on the list). The advisor told me he agreed in replacing the fuel pump (that was part of the light bulb moment for this new Toyota supervisor). The catch is that even if they agree my pump is bad, I'm understanding lots of folks on the recall list don't yet have another pump to get put in :/.

I also started making a stink in ways to get Toyota executive attention & have a line to the Area Manager & SVP, now. AutoNation Corporate is also reaching out.

I like the video suggestion if this doesn't work, thanks.

 

Are folks whose vehicles are actively stalling also having to wait? My understanding is they don't yet have a fix for some.

 

Well my dealer finally got a ORP in stock that was not sold so I could test drive. I was impressed. Drove it maybe 15 miles including city and highway. It was quicker than I expected. I found the gear to change to 4WD simple. Just pull back and then push forward to take out. It was quiet I thought and no rattles noted. I sort of wish I could get JBL but oh well it’s a trade off. Sales of course was not aware of fuel pump issue. I was super impressed after driving one. Now time to get one. Hopefully your fuel pump issue is resolved

 

the fuel pump impellers crack and break off then the fuel pressure drops lower or stalls the vehicle.these newer fuel pumps are defective. the failure codes will throw a low gas pressure code. my family member Tacoma 2019 had this fuel low pressure code. I put my code reader diagnostic on it and it created a code light on the dash.. I picked up that code and stated low fuel .I forgot the code #..

 

Are there quality after market pumps available? If so, think I'd purchase one and be done with it. Life is short and sometimes the lesser of two evils is to take a minor hit over what could end up being a major one(depending upon where and if a pump shoots craps), of course. Decisions.