Needle bearing issue?

Any update? I have same 2020 orp. Drove it out of the garage and immediately knew something wasn't right. The dealer say anything about the lift?

 

I have a thread around here somewhere about it. Toyota replaced the diff under warranty/existing tsb. You don't happen to be the guy on one of the Facebook groups asking about it?

 

Just purchased a new 2021 4Runner and have been having this issue. Took it in on a warmer day and had trouble pointing out especially on the rough road they took me on. Gonna go back in and show them with the right conditions. Can’t believe I have to deal with this on a vehicle that I’ve only put 1000 miles on.

 

Welcome to the forum!

I agree that this is a disappointing issue. I had the issue basically right away. My differential was replaced 17K miles ago and it hasn't returned... Yet.

There is always the ECGS bushing fix.

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Good luck on getting it resolved to your satisfaction.

FWIW, mine had this issue. I replaced the needle bearing myself with the ECGS bushing referenced above. I did the ECGS bushing swap a year ago and it's been smooth ever since.

 

Ok thanks for the info. Why is it that the cold weather causes it to act up more?

 

I'm guessing it's because the needle bearing shrinks just enough in cold temperatures to magnify the fact that it fits too loosely over the CV axle.

When I pulled mine apart it was kinda pathetic seeing the loose fit of that bearing to the axle. The ECGS bushing fits the axle much more snug.

 

Hey guys. New to Toyota and this is my first post here. I have a 2021 T4R ORP and love it so far. The last couple of weeks it’s been pretty cold (teens to twenties) and I’ve noticed that, when slowing down (engine braking/foot off the gas or light brake) from about 25 mph I get a deep “womp womp womp” that seems to change with speed. Possibly a light vibration but it’s hard to tell. I wanted to get an opinion on if this might just be tires (stock Bridgestone Duelers), balance or maybe alignment. I haven’t been able to find a good clip of what the driver’s side diff needle bearing issue really sounds like. A couple of clips I could make out a intermittent rattle/grind but wasn’t sure what people meant when they say it sounds like “womp womp.” I don’t think the sound goes away completely in 4hi but does definitely get more faint.

Taking it to the dealer to have them check it out but am not expecting much. Less than 1k miles on the car so far.

 

The needle bearing was an issue on my 2014 Tacoma. The ECGS bushing solved the vibes and it never came back.
Surprised to see this issue hasn't been resolved by now

 

I have a 2021 TRD Pro , put the wescott leveling kit and noticed the horrible grinding sound between 40-50 mph and first thought it was the tires I put (k02 285's) So i wasted more money buying another set of tires and still there. Noise got unbearable with the freezing temps so I took it in and they replaced the needle bearing and that took care of the noise! My rig only has 3k miles on it, I'm not very happy about this so I will be doing the upgrade when it goes bad again.

 

I edited my post #15 with current observations now that I've had 2 4Rs that have done this.

ECGS is the way to go, IMO.

https://www.4runners.com/threads/needle-bearing-issue.8124/#post-115940

 

I am not mechanically inclined but this is very disconcerting as I order a 21 ORP; darn

 

Yeah, My 2021 only has 3,000 miles and it was bad. If you lift yours and start noticing it I would talk to your service department if you have a good relationship with the manager about having them swap the ECGS bushing instead if you provide it. That way you can get the labor taken care of under warranty My service technician is the one who recommended the "upgraded" aftermarket bushing.

 

I'm planning on buying a 2021 ORP next month. Maybe I should just order one of those ECGS bushings now so I'll have it handy.

Rick

 

No, no, no.

Unnecessary worry; don't pre-order a bushing. If it happens (and it seems like about 30% have it, based on casual estimation from forum posts) you have plenty of time to sort it out. It's not catastrophic. It's an easy fix (or easy to open your wallet and pay for 90 minutes of labor to a garage). Don't let the possibility of this minor issue darken the joy of your upcoming 4R purchase.

 

Ok. Thanks Meef. I won't order the bushing unless I experience the problem. Oh no, I will definitely be getting the 21 $R/ORP next month. I want that same old school drive train I have on my 2010 FJ Cruiser.

Rick

 

Does this noise just occur when going in and out of 4WD? Sorry if dumb question here. As I mentioned I am not too good with mechanics. I am going in blind to dealers asking for prices on order so I don't know anyone in a service dept. If anyone has suggestions in SE MI (metro Detroit) please let me know. It would be so nice to get a referral for someone you can have a little trust in.

 

The noise and slight vibration should be felt between 40-50 mph in 2WD, when you engage 4WD it should go away if its your needle bearing.

 

I saved this needle bearing after I removed it.

The flat spots showing wear in between the needles are what I'm assuming makes the noise as the CV shaft rides on these areas instead of the tiny needles. This thing is really a stupid design IMO.



I was shocked at how loose this fit over the CV axle...very sloppy.

One more pic for reference of the size of this bearing and also to show how much money Toyota probably saves per car by not having this piece of crap redesigned...



Remember everyone...Toyota loves you...

 

Oh what a feeling...Toyota!

They most likely have hundreds of thousands of those needle bearings sitting on the shelf that they refuse to not use.

 

I’m 100% sure that was built in China...

 

What's crazy is that a bushing would have to be cheaper for them

 

Surprised Toyota hasn't fixed this by now.

 

The service manager where I had mine replaced said that the differential had a new part number. I originally hoped that they may have altered the design. But, based on what I read here, it sounds like he was full of it.

 

ECGS and never look back! I had the same problems you all did with vibration/grinding occurring in 2wd and went away in 4WD. My Toyota rep stated it was the needle bearing and they would replace it with another needle bearing. I elected not to have them replace the defective needle bearing with another needle bearing that would most likely fail in the future. Install took about 4-5 hours.

 

Update: I’m fairly certain mine is tires. It changes with tire speed and there is no (noticeable) grinding. Also when you look at the Toyota reviews on Tire Rack for the stock Bridgestone tires, the average rating is like 2.5 stars

 

Mine is making a great impression of mud tires. But I still suspect something is going on, mostly because of the noise mostly going away in 4wd. Im still going to wait to take it in, at least until the point where nobody can deny the sound being there.

 

This is how I would describe mine as well. Though it’s hardly noticeable when going at the typical speed range that most report the needle bearing issue. It’s more of a “womp womp wommp” that gets slower as I come to a stop. What are your tire pressures? I’m 35psi cold and they don’t warm up much with the weather lately....

I wonder if it’s less noticeable in 4WD due to the different engine braking forces through the driveline?

 

I host a lot of mod days in my area. Whenever we do it left or anything where we have the front suspension apart, I typically suggest and we do the ECGS bushing while we're there. I keep four of them on hand and if someone uses one I just expect them to replace it. Funny part is I still haven't done mine! I spend a lot of time with the Tacoma guys and we change them a lot. Everyone we've pulled out shows signs of ware. Whether or not they would have failed I couldn't tell you. Definitely a significant design flaw.

 

Reading around led me to a similar understanding. Not sure of the actual mechanics involved though.