Synthetic Oil in our 2nd gens ?

Coming up on oil change, been running Shell Rotela and Napa Gold oil filters since I’ve had the truck. Been snooping around reading about Synthetic’s, just an old school Guy, the myth of oil leaks etc has always kept me from using it.

Thinking about Mobil one or Amazon basics synthetic this round and going for the 10,000 Mile oil changes.

Just curious what others here think, is the 3VZE a good enough engine to handle it ?

TIA.

 

Who the hell uses conventional anymore?

 

50+ years later I still pick my nose with a finger, hey it works.

 

I have never used synthetic in mine and probably never will. I change my oil once a year and have never had an issue. That said, I only put 2 to 3K miles a year on it as it is.

 

O'Reilly brand 20W-50 $17/5 quarts, Wix 51515R (40 micron high flow) Oil filter every other 2,500 miles I change the filter. 10K on the rebuild so far.

The 3VZ-E if you take it to redline out of due course in driving it, it will turn the oil black thus getting rid of it is a better option than keeping it in the engine for 10,000 miles because its synthetic oil that you had put in it.

If you never press the go pedal more than half way then go for the synthetic and a long drain interval and maybe you will come out even on cost but much less fun!

Nothing absolute here and I'm tempted just as you are for a better way to keep the gizzards happy!

 

Rumor: Not yours (10K) but higher mileage engines if you change to synthetic, the different chemical composition will clean your engine (good), but will also clean all sledge at older seals (not good). Again rumor, your engine will leak like hell. ??? Any thoughts out there, or examples? I just rebuilt mine, new seals, everything, running Mobile 1. So far dry underneath... 4K on it now...

 

I have used synthetic oil in most of my vehicles since the 70’s. I have switched over to synthetic oil on some vehicles with over 50K miles and I have not had any problems. If you are using Mobil 1 with no issues I would keep using it.

My 4R needs a quart every 500 to 600 miles. I am too cheap to add the $$ oil, so I use what ever is on sale at Wal Mart. Usually a semi synthetic high mileage 10W-40.

 

I’m still on the fence. Mine is coming up on 200,000 miles. Since I got it used I really have no idea on the deep mechanics of it. I just replaced my plugs, all 6 that came out were perfect. When I replaced my injectors and the cups I could see some carbon on the pistons but it looked like a normal type build up, discoloring whatever you call it.

I’m really not hard on my runner, just trips into the desert where I’ll point and go. Then whatever it takes to get where I’m trying to get too. I will burn about a 1/2 quart every 3500 miles. For me 3rd gear is my strong pulling gear and where I’ll hit the highest rpms.

As for leaks, never had any, anywhere. Kinda blessed with this Toyota that way. Not a single drop of fluid on the driveway...ever.

So I don’t know, Maybe just keep on keeping on ya know.

 

All this chatter about synthetics causing your older engine to leak seems to me to be nonsense. The seal itself is the issue and all elastomeric seals will get hard and brittle given enough time and exposure to an engines operational life. The oils today have a lot of detergents in them and are missing some heavy metals like the famed ZDDP that will clobber your CAT in the long term. If that is not a concern then run oils for diesel engines in your gasoline engine. Or get some ZDDP additive from STP. As for leaks you just need to service the gasket or the seal that is spewing. As for which oil to use I think you should buy what you can afford for piece of mind but changing it often with all that detergent that is supposedly cleaning everything is the best plan as it helps to remove the combustion by products and removes the worn out oil from the crankcase. The compression ring and the oiling ring on the piston is where the real question lies. If your engine has more miles on it than a JDM replacement then the combustion gasses are passing into the crankcase alot more than just after it was brand new and well broken in. Why do you think Japan has all these engines with low miles on them for you to use as a replacement, Its because they are making too many crankcase emissions for Japan to tolerate. The combustion by products are why the oil has the detergents in them in the first place so more frequent drain intervals are the only thing that makes any sense for any engine that is being used for its intended purpose. If this differs from your take I hold no opinion higher than any other. But my life experience does sway my own understanding having taken each of three of my own personal vehicles to well over 250K miles. It will be interesting to see how the 3VZ-E compares with what I experienced with my 1982 22R.

I just hope I can solve my rear main seal leaking problem once and for all as it is two seals later along with a seal saver and nothing is any better than after the engine rebuild?

 

Well here’s the deal. Last year I got classic plates. Have to keep it under 5000 miles per year and no smog required. Just a mileage statement. Meaning I have to go into DMVNV once a year. I passed smog with awesome numbers last year to qualify.

Well this year because of the covid the earliest I appointment I could get was September 29th. My Registration is due August 8th. Wasn’t willing to let my truck sit that long and not willing to get the extension because Never invite the man into your life.

I did get my card in the mail, which requires a smog check, so Wednesday I said hell with it. Took my registration card to the smog place, 10 minutes later pass. Smog guy says, Sir your truck is extremely clean then asks why I’m there with classic plates already. I explained to him the situation, then went to the DMV Kiosk and got new sticker.

Later in the day watching Chasing Classic Cars, Wayne meets a family with a 3 Million Mile Volvo. I believe it’s a Guinness World Record Holder. The daughter of the owner said.....he religiously changed the oil every 3500 miles. 2 engine rebuilds during that 3 million miles. Pretty impressive !

Good enough for me, I’m sticking with my regiment, that and the smog guy convinced me to just keep doing what I’m doing. The Rotella has extra zinc and I’m a believer in Napa Gold Filters it’s working great obviously the sniffer in the pipe once again revealed great numbers.

I hope you get that seal resolved, your 4Runner looks great Parker ! And Thanks for taking the time to post. I always enjoy reading your thoughts and Improvements.

 

I have a 2005 V6 with 150,000 miles. I changed to synthetic, but got oil leakage immediately on an engine that had never leaked. I changed back to conventional and the leaking slowed down to a drop or two, but did not go away entirely.

Had I stayed with conventional and changed the oil every 5000 miles I wonder if I would ever had gotten any leak.

I thought about adding a stop leak but I have never added anything to this engine, so will live with the small leak.

Any recommendations for a "stop leak".

UPDATE: After changing back to conventional the oil "drips" from the synthetic eventually slowed down and almost stopped.

Obviously, I'm through with synthetic.

 

I have nothing, I’ve never used any of the stop leak products. If it’s something accessible and you can repair it I’d go that route. If it’s something requiring the engine coming out then maybe live with it.

Which synthetic did you try that caused the leak ? Just curious.

 

Well sad to say after doing the Amazon 10-30 full synthetic oil change I’ve developed a pretty good leak somewhere underneath . First time since I’ve owned her to ever leak anything on the driveway.

Maybe it’s just chance that something has wore out, but after only one month she’s leaking. I’m bummed big time, was just about to order new rims but now the search is on. Sucks because it’s been running really strong, smooth since the oil change and going back to the stock rims.

 

don't know about 4Runners in particular, but regarding older cars, my dear older brother (like way older, back when cars were made of wood) is a petroleum engineer. FWIW....he has for as long as I remember run synthetic in everything from brand new vehicles to his old 82 Volvo station wagon. He worked for Mobil but buys pretty much whatever is on sale. No problems that I ever heard of....then again other people have reported issues so who knows, maybe just lucky.

 

Yeah I hear you, funny thing is I was about to report on Monday after the LCE tuneup, Synthetic oil change and going back to the original rims she’s been running best it ever has. Then Tuesday I noticed a small spot, but wasn’t sure if it was from the wife’s Ford, we traded places in the driveway so I could replace an EGR valve and oil coolant hose. Funny how that stuff craps out right before she’s do for smog. The check engine light went off and she passed.

Then we switched back and sure enough, new spot, leaking where the engine and trans meet on the drivers side.I just ordered new front sway bar links so it’ll be a few days before I get under it and start searching.

 

My bet is it is either the rear main seal or it is higher up on the head for that side of the motor. Those round cam cover plugs at the end of the head can be a leaky nightmare. Or it could be the blasted cam covers on top of the heads. Also the extra bolt on the head to block might need a tightening up if you have composite head gaskets. Good luck in finding it and fixing it.

 

Thanks atgparker, yeah I’m kinda bummed . I’ve got new rims coming today and the front sway bar stuff will be here Tuesday so probably this coming Wednesday I’ll get under her and get a photo of where I see the oil and a pic of the driveway.

it’s leaking enough to leave about a silver dollar size stain on the concrete. If it is the heads leaking I may pull them and have them rebuilt, then I’m going to fabricate my own crossover pipe and eliminate the way the factory one goes across the back of the engine.

Hopefully it’s something easy because man, she’s been running so strong. If I have to get into it then I’m gonna knock out that pipe, a few other things.

 

Here’s a few...

up top I can’t really see anything.

The Amazon Synthetic went in at 191573 and I’ll call it 191890 so only 317 miles for this to show, prior 4 years never a single leak with the 10-30 Rotella.

 

my 99 tacoma I always ran Mobile 1 synthetic. Did oil changes every 10K that way with a extra capacity filter. Did that until the truck got 260k miles on it and it only ever burned a quart between changes. Never leaked. Go for it.

 

Great info flyinhoot, ima check that out........ahhhhhhh isn’t the world grand .

 

My skid plate catches all of my drips leaving me with a spotless driveway and garage floor. Another reason for belly armor.

I have a small leak at the rear crank seal, a few tablespoons or so between oil changes. The leak is not enough for me to worry about or change the seal, it’s just enough to make a mess under the truck. If the seal was easy to get to and it was a sure thing to stop the leak with a new seal, I would change it. I have changed enough seals to know there is no guarantee a new seal will stop the leak, so I will live with it for now. The perks of a 27 year old truck.

 

I wish it was something leaking down on the guard, it would probably be easier fixed. My sway bar links arrived so tomorrow going to take a serious look at what it is.

 

I have a 2005 4runner with V6 150,000 miles

I do my own oil changes
After 12 years of conventional, I tried to switch to synthetic. I immediately got "drips" on my garage floor - so switched back to conventional.

The drips eventually stopped 100% on garage floor after two oil changes.

Just change oil every 5000 miles. Synthetic is overrated - especially in older cars. Great for new cars, however, maybe!

 

Thanks captsolo, I may just do that. Go back to the Rotella and hope for the best, it looks to be a possible rear seal that’s leaking . Not worth pulling the whole engine for, at least not yet.

 

Well, going back in this morning with the Rotella 10-30 regular oil @ 192227 miles. Fingers crossed it slows the leak down. It’s getting pretty bad, oil everywhere around the lower bell housing and all, hopefully it’s not soaking my clutch.

 

Hope it works for you. It might take a few oil changes before the "drips" stop (or slow substantially). Good that you are using the right weight conventional oil recommended by Toyota.

My oil leak almost stopped completely when I switched back to conventional. Just an occasional drip now.

Lot of miles. Congratulations. Toyotas are so well built.

I'm using NAPA 10W 30. The drips are almost stopped. See just one "new" drop on the cardboard on the garage floor today. Wife is out now driving around.. shopping..

I wouldn't recommend synthetic oil in a 10-year-old car that runs right on a good conventional.

One or two drops a week is not going to prompt me into any new maintenance. I can live with it. 2005 4runner starts up and runs like new - i.e., when I bought it off the dealer lot for $41,000. Where I am the government has a 40 to 90% duty on new cars today.

 

My take is that you are probably better off with autoparts store brand oils that are conventional oil. It is cheaper than the name branded stuff and I can afford to toss it every 2,500 miles and do a new WIX filter every 5000 miles. I still have my buggered rear main seal on my rebuilt motor but its not leaking enough to need topping off over the 2,500 miles! But it sure does make a mess and every once in awhile a drop will fall off the ribbing at the bottom of the transmission housings casting and onto the DT-headers cross over pipe that is located underneath and I will smell the burnt oil odour for a minute. I really hate that!

While the oil does manage to drip from the bottom of the bell housing and the inside of the bell housing does get oil everywhere inside it, on my 4Runner it is now starting to seep out around the boot for the clutch fork lever. But the back side of the flywheel where the clutch disk with pressure plate resides does not get contaminated with oil. This make sense because when the oil pressure is up and the seal is potentially leaking the flywheels front surface is the first thing the oil can get to and it summarily just flings it off because it is spinning at engine running RPM. So for it to get to the clutch disk the oil would have to overcome the centrifugal force of the flywheels angular velocity and then it could migrate to the disk and pressure plate.

That Rotella is good stuff but be aware that it may still have the ZDDP in it which if run long enough in a high mileage engine may kill off your catalytic converter. It would likely take a good while but that is why they don't have it in the oils for gasoline engines any longer. So unless you use Rotella or a classic car motor oil that the likes of Amsoil or some other bespoke oil company sells for older non smog compliant engines that is how you can get the ZDDP in your oil. Just be aware that the CAT and ZDDP in the oil are not a good long term thing you should be doing as the CAT will get contaminated and then it will fail the smog check.

I really hope your rear main seal hasn't gotten as bad as mine is? It will be a t-case and transmission removal when it is time to finally give this seal another replacement and a better seal saver on the crankshaft will hopefully solve the problem?

 

I’ve read your thread, I sure hope when it comes time that the seal from LCE does the trick. I know that’s frustrating has hell especially for a guy that’s as thorough as you are.

I’ve got a hell of a mess on my side of the driveway now, it SUCKS big time after never leaking all these years. I prided myself on keeping up with everything and keeping her leak free, that’s all in the toilet now dammit.

I’d say to anyone that reads this thread, don’t switch like I did if you’ve got a Gen 2. I read the threads, yeah it’s 2020 and all that, who still uses regular oil..blah...blah...blah, our’s weren’t built for it so don’t buy into everything you read. Here’s all the proof you need. I’ll post a pic later of how bad my driveway is with all the oil on the ground.

All I know about the Rotella is that it has more zinc than other oils, haha I read it on the internet, which helps protect the metal surfaces inside the engine and up till now it never leaked and I’ve never had an issue. atgparker at the smog stations I’ve never failed one and every year I’ve always gotten mention from the smog guy the number are very good for my truck, once I had the State inspector there, been going to the same guy for years, he’s the guy that inspects the smog stations making sure they’re compliant. It was like two years ago, he snatched the paper when it came out of the machine, looked over the numbers and said, I don’t know what your doing but that old Toyota is testing cleaner than most new cars.

I have no idea what ZDDP is but the Rotella definitely seems to work, really upsets me that I tried this damn synthetic.

So I’m going to put maybe 200 miles on the new Rotella and change it again out to hopefully get most of the synthetic out with the second oil change then cross my fingers. If it doesn’t work, the engine and trans are coming out. I don’t think I’ll do a full rebuild, inspection dependent of course but for sure seals will be replaced and I’m going to get rid of the crossover pipe, refresh the heads and a few other things.

 

I changed back to conventional and the drips I was getting from synthetic are almost completely stopped.
no more synthetic oil in my 2005 4runner (150,000 miles)
Short miles too as I'm in Nassau Bahamas (28 mile long island - speed limit 50 on 1 hwy?)

Purchased my 4runner new off dealer's lot.
Runs amazingly well.
Had a GMC JIMMY from new (off a dealer lot in Florida), but it was not 1/2 the truck a 4runner is.
Got rid of it for $800 because of unsightly rust. 4runner has zero body rust and is 15 years old.

Quality comes with the Toyota brand.
My daughter has a 2015 Camry from new with 50,000 miles. Looks and runs like new still.
She's owned the Camry since freshman year at Florida State (3.3 GPA when graduated) and now works in Denver and drives to work with the same Camry. I ask her occasionally How's the Camry? No problems. Great on gas. Just do the oil changes. Tires changed at 50,000 miles. Daddy had to offer to pay for the new tires. Ladies don't seem to understand cars need new tires now and then.

Great car for young girls and inexperienced drivers. Very reliable. $22,000 new

American auto manufacturers don't make cars anymore. Toyota and Honda drove them into bankruptcy and out of the car markets.

Camry was a good investment as she could not have landed the job with the biggest discount stock broker in the world without a way to get to work every day.

She's happy! I'm happy! Toyota is happy!

Just change the oil and a Camry can go 300,000 trouble free miles.