2020 needle bearing issue

I searched around and didn't see much for the current model year vehicles. Has anyone had the front differential needle bearing issues that was on the TSB for previous years? I just installed and Ironman 4x4 stage 2 kit on my 2020 ORP. After install I took a drive to the store to let everything settle. 5 miles each way. On the way there it felt great with no issues. On the way home the noise and vibration were obvious. Did the trip the next day with my buddy in the car who is a 2nd gen taco owner and it did the same thing. Silent on the way there terrible on the way back. Goes away in 4h. I'm going to bring it to Toyota hopefully this week but I'm preparing for them to deny warranty claim due to "user installed lift" in which case I will go the east coast gear bushing. I was really careful during the install so the fact that this happened is incredibly frustrating.

Anyone else experience this? Should I be looking at something else? Its supposed to go to the offroad shop tomorrow for alignment but being they are part of autogroup with Toyota im going to see if they can help me work the whole issue at one time.

 

Generally the issue won't manifest itself immediately after lift install, it takes thousands of miles. So that's weird. With that said, your other symptoms sound indicative of the issue, especially that it goes away in 4hi. I was able to get a warranty claim for my old 14 with that issue even with a lift, but I had to fight the dealer a little. They actually never said boo about the lift, they just tried to pretend they couldn't feel, hear, or replicate the issue.

 

I've heard on a couple instances where it happened immediately but I agree that it tends to be after miles of wear. That's why I was curious of checking anything else to remove potential user error on my part for install. I did a diff drop with it. Front coils are measuring almost exactly 3" of lift (about 3 1/8" on drivers side). When I broke the ball joint I was careful to keep the spindle pulled inward to prevent stress on the CV everything went together smoothly. Maybe just bad luck or the bearing was already compromised and the lift just highlighted the issue more. Mystery to men but I just need to get it resolved, hopefully without dumping a ton of money into a month old vehicle.

 

Hate to hear this, especially since I've got this exact lift on order.

 

Honestly I don't hold it against Ironman. There is almost 0 probability that their parts cause it. Its a lift just like any other. It likely comes down to user error installing or bad luck on the needle. I'm kind of hoping the alignment will take stress of the bearing and it will go away, but won't know until tomorrow if that's the case. I will keep posted.

Ironman customer service has been great but did have a slight issue with sway bar relocation. I'm going to call them today about it. I'll keep you posted on anything being you have a lift coming.

 

That is weird that it happened right away. Mine took thousands of miles but that's without any lift. When I did go to the dealer it took about 6 tries to get them to do anything about it. They kept saying they couldn't hear anything and they couldn't replicate it. It was also way worse the colder the temperatures got, in the winter at -35 the bearing rumbled. Eventually I went to the dealer with the TSB printed out in hand, and I said this better get fixed regardless of warranty mileage because I've got it on record that I've been complaining about this for quite some time. The a-holes then said "oh but that's an american TSB", so I called up a mechanic friend and he got me the Canadian number and they finally did it.

Unfortunately now I have some other bearing noise that I can't figure out. The new noise does not go away in 4WD, but otherwise sounds pretty similar.

 

After the alignment it appears that my noise and vibration is resolved. I've only put about 20 miles on the vehicle and 16 of which were my morning commute. Usually it presents itself in that period. I did cycle in and out of 4hi just to verify. Time to start wheel and tire shopping.

 

So it sounds like it was an alignment issue?

 

Thats what we are thinking at the moment. I'll keep and eye (ear) on it for a while. Alignment was pretty wack considering I didn't UCA and 3" lift. I post back up here if it returns.

 

As an update to everyone. After some lightish trails the vibration and noise from the needle bearing returned. I took the truck to local dealer. I was lucky to work with one of their more experienced techs who also owns a tacoma and hes dealt with the bearing issue. Just describing it he immediately new it and confirmed with vehicle on the lift. The dealer was good about working with me on the warranty claim. They did the replacement as a "good will" basically meaning the presence of the lift would normal cause them to not cover it but given the circumstances of timing of it all happening they were pretending it wasn't there. They were specific in that if it did not fix the issue or returned in short order that it would have been more cumbersome to resolve with Toyota. I'm okay with that, if it returns I'll go the bushing route. I don't think it will.

For anyone interested, I saw the service order for the warranty work. $2250 for the differential, $300 for "parts" and $320 in labor. So would have been $2800 if I paid for it and probably a bit more because I don't think $320 actually covered their labor.

So all that said, big shout out to the Hanover Toyota (Hanover, PA) service team. They were really awesome to work with and did their best to accommodate. I'm sure it helped that I knew what I was talking about and not walking in the door demanding things for free. The whole Hanover auto group has been great including their Hanover Off Road team.

 

Don't sweat that. The lift isn't doing it. The change in CV angles is doing it. Even the stock unit can have this issue btw.

The ECGS was installed on my 2016 with 8,000 miles, and it's currently at 60,000+ and never returned.

FYI, the 2016 was a Bilstein, I run Ironman on my 2020 and no issues yet. When it crops up, as I expect it to eventually one of these years, ECGS bushing is the fix.

 

Wait, did they completely replace your differential? That's excessive!

 

They sure did. I asked the same question. $20 needle bearing vs. $2200 diff. seems obvious. The TSB calls to replace the whole thing, I believe its written as such in the event that the needle bearing put any metal into the differential case.

 

On mine they only replaced the bearing but I have heard that now they replace the whole diff. From a video I saw the root cause of the issue seems to be a poor casting which then puts undue stress/load on that bearing. So replacing the parts that don't have a good fit makes more sense than just replacing the bearing.

Found the video and it happens to be from ECGS:
https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-8536125-toyota-8-clamshell-bushing-eliminates-needle-bearing.html

 

This makes way more sense. When I put on my engineer hat the inconsistent issue always had me thinking there was a tolerance stack up issue between several parts.

 

There has been a recent update to the TSB that specifies the whole diff be replaced.
They just did the bearing on mine about 14 months ago - 2017 stock with 18K miles.

 

Yep changed my entire front diff at about 9000 miles. 2019 ORP, no lift.

Noise was present when driven in cold temps, went away in 4 HI. Rode with an experienced tech and of course could not get it to replicate, he said he knew the issue and replaced the diff.

 

LOL!! This just happened to me. Twice in two weeks, making a right hand turn from a dead stop... accelerate out of the turn and a dip in power, no acceleration, engine didn't die, let go of the gas pedal and a few seconds later she comes back to life. The dealer said exactly what you typed.

 

That's why I almost always request to take a tech for a ride. Unfortunately you can give a detailed description but all that goes down for the concern is "loss of power on right turn" so the tech doesn't know much better when he drives it.

 

Ugh, I just read through this thread, and I am experiencing the same exact issue. 2020 ORP with 3K miles and an Ironman 4x4 Foam Stage-3 lift last weekend and I'm having vibes. I don't have faith that the dealership will help at all because I am already at odds over the sales process. Just curious, does your ride have KDSS?

 

Welcome to the forum!

The dealer may still replace the differential as the needle bearing issue is a well known. If one dealer doesn't, try another. You could even try reaching out to Toyota directly if no dealers are willing to help.

Good luck!

 

No KDSS for me.

 

Does anyone know the TSB # or info? I would like to have all of the info in hand when I approach the subject with the dealership. Cheers!

 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10153276-9999.pdf

 

My advice to you is don't walk in there guns blazing expecting them to take care of it. 2020 isn't on the TSB (why is still a mystery being part numbers didn't change) and with a lift they will immediately point at it as causing the issue. Work with them and see how it goes. Have the ECGS bushing in your head as the next step.

 

Well my 2019 has started the infernal cyclic diff groaning. 37k on it total, 10k with a small lift. Goddamn it! My former 2014 made it to about 50k (25k on a lift) before the needle diff went and my wife's 2017 is at 60k+ (with about 50k on a lift) with no issues.

I had a shop order me the ECGS bushing and seal today; they'll install it for me in a few weeks. They ordered the various tools as well but they are covering those and will keep them for the shop. It's only about 1.5 hours of labor so really the overall investment isn't huge. I was just hoping to not have to do it again... my 2014 was done under CPO warranty by the dealer and they just replaced the needle bearing assembly with a new one, it started lightly groaning again about 30 miles later and never really was fixed right...

 

Will anyone be surprised if the 6th gen gets the same front diff with the same needle bearing?

 

I hope not! My service manager gave me the impression that the diff part number had changed. Of course, he could have been full of it.

 

I bet money it will have the same issue. Toyota has known about this needle bearing for over a decade and they don't have a resolution. Considering the fix would be the redesign the front diff I don't see it happening, since it's a pretty reliable ring and pinion and the engineering cost is already sunken.

Regardless, I've done 3 3rd Gen Tacomas, 2 5th Gen 4Runners with the ECGS and not a single one had an issue, and it's been a combined hundred thousand miles easy. My 2016 I did it with 8k miles on it, and it's at 70k miles now, still flawless (except we broke the removal tool off in the diff and spent 2 hours fishing it out with a magnet...that wans't ECGS fault, we dumb).

Don't blame Ironman or any lift company, this happens on bone stock. The CV angle change just typically speeds it up. I don't have it now on my 2020, but I'm sure it will happen, and when it does, warranty or not, I'll just do the bushing and never look back.

 

Sorry to hear this.

So are you not taking it to the dealer just because you don't think they'll *really* fix it?

Would a dealer even have any interest in installing the ECGS bushing under warranty? I'd imagine not.