Vehicle Data Transmission

Who has Turned their VDT off? Im really considering doing it. I dont like the idea of all my movements being tracked, they know how much gas i have and what my mileage is just to name a few.

Has anyone used their SOS button?

Makes me think of On Star. And they can unlock your vehicle or turn in off with a push of a button from some office in BFE

 

Whooooa hold up... What is this VDT you're talking about?? Is this just a feature on the 2020's or do the '19s have it as well?? If so I would definitely like to turn it off. I read through just about my entire owner manual (to catch sneaky stuff like this) when I got my runner and didn't see anything about that.

 

I feel much the same, for me everything that’s being added is for safety features at the cost of privacy. I’ve never been a fan.

I tried to follow the instruction about turning off the SOS feature. The first time I actually made and SOS call but your able to disconnect before connecting to and operator.

A lot of the features seem to help people that can’t help themselves. I’m not suggesting this is a fact, just what I tend to notice. The adaptive cruise control... absolute trash. Here in Texas people don’t seem to believe in CC and therefore, drive all different speeds. The constant stop and throttle of the acceleration had me so frustrated I wanted to crash the damn thing on purpose.

Again, most of these are features I find useless. I don’t like being tracked, I’m tired of sacrificing my privacy for market competition. Tirade over!

 

I believe these features to be form 2020 and newer. I remember such people having this discussion as a pro to buy a 19 over a 20. You should be A OK

 

Thanks for the info regarding the '19 vs '20.

I feel the same way! Everything else is tracking us, from our phones to our purchases ect. The last thing I want is for any data from my vehicle to be turned over to Toyota to analyze.

I, also, can't stand that adaptive CC!

 

Whether you keep it on or off, anytime you connect your vehicle to the internet via your phone, all that data is transmitted.

 

https://www.toyota.com/privacyvts/images/doc/privacy-portal.pdf

 

You do realize that if you just hold the CC button a few seconds, it becomes a traditional CC.

 

I actually just turned the whole thing off, appreciate it though.

 

Yes, it was an option in the '19, but it seems to be standard in the '20.

 

Navigation has been in the 5th gen for the entirety of it's run. The earlier models still have an ID that they can track. They may not have all the data transfer of the newer models, but if you have GPS, they can track you if they want to. I've thought about pulling my shark fin and cutting the umbilical many times.

 

Is that fin only the GPS? Nothing else uses it? If you cut the cord, let is know!!!

 

One more reason to build not buy.

 

The other things that come to mind is Sat radio and the Toyota on star system whatever it's called. Haven't had Sat radio for years and have a dual band ham radio for help if I need it. Been leaving my cell phone at home a lot lately because I use an XGPS for Nav when I need it.

 

Everybody wants your data to monetize it against your best interests but that doesn't mean you have to let them have unfettered access to it.

One more reason I opted to buy a 2019 - I hate all those damn nannies and subscription services Toyota introduced.

I don't care for integrated GPS - a $99 (or less) stand alone GPS unit (Garmin device or tablet with free Gaia app) would be just fine with me.

You can always just turn your cell phone off and carry it with you in case you need it, and don't pair it with, or plug it into, your vehicle.

 

AI will be taking over one day. It kind of already has in a lot of ways. The spoon fed masses will allow it too easily. We've raised a nation of non social "Look Downs". Probably gonna ruffle some feathers with that statement.

 

Agreed.

But again, just for clarity and to the best of anyone's knowledge, does pairing your phone via Bluetooth to a 2019 allow any vehicle data to be transferred or collected?? And by pairing I mean just for calls/music.

 

If you want to get into creepy, think about contact tracing. It goes a lot deeper than just selling insurance. I have to adjust my foil hat now.......

 

I bought my 4r in Jan. And went with the last 2019 on the lot just for these reasons (ORP but not loaded up with a bunch of the garbage). My last SUV had all the garbage and I did not like it. Every time it rained the cruse sensor got water on it and started beeping at me to take it in for service. Hated it. Love the 4r for this and many other reasons.

 

For those with the app. Look at your driving score. I drive very conservative and my insurance would have dinged me...why? I had many hard braking tags that is impossible to avoid in Chicago. Guessing insurance would rather you take out the jackass that slammed on his brakes in front of me.
I had mine shut off but was a pain in the ass. Toyota makes you jump through hoops to get out of something that I was never informed that we were automatically signed up for

 

Very glad to see this discussion. More people should be tuning into this issue. It's not just a question of privacy. There's significant potential for hackers or governments to manipulate your vehicle. Any computer connected to the Internet can be hacked remotely, and most vehicle computers are. This includes Limiteds from before 2020, as they had Connected Services. Certain Sirius features have also had their own connection and data transmission for many years.

It's not paranoid to assume that certain hostile nations have already compromised systems like this and OnStar as part of a larger cyber warfare strategy. We know that has already occurred with other systems used by many tens of millions of Americans. So there's already an ability of a country like China to send the lives of millions of people into turmoil in the context of a larger cyber or other kind of attack.

Law enforcement has already tapped into these systems to shut off the vehicles of suspects, and to record conversations within vehicles to support arrests and prosecutions. You may or may not trust law enforcement to use this power only within Constitutional bounds and only to "catch the bad guys." I know better. But you certainly can't trust China or Russia.

Do we really want someone to be able to turn our engines on or off, or in some vehicles to be able to steer or apply the brakes, from an Internet-connected computer anywhere in the world?

So this goes well beyond location tracking, which occurs constantly anyway both via your cell phone and from now-ubiquitous license plate readers.

As far as I know, the only reliable way to prevent the physical manipulation of your vehicle, the collection of personal data and the ability to record conversations is to disable any Internet connection. That means destroying or disconnecting the cellular transmitter.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaQIbonyCgw
It's been a thing for awhile. I think anyone shopping for a new vehicle should address encryption with the management team at your dealer, and if they act dumb? I would say "No Sale". We should all demand control of this for security and safety reasons. 6K cars stolen in the UK back in 15'? There may be better security measures in place now, but it still doesn't protect our privacy. Erosion is a slow and deliberate process that needs to be monitored ALL the time, and not just at beach front property.

 

In case it's not obvious, I should clarify that it's not enough to opt out from these services. It's a good step to take if you rather protect your privacy than have the convenience of these services. But any system that can be turned off can also be turned back on. Hackers could do it without Toyota's cooperation. Toyota could do it in response to a government request.

You can't trust Toyota's system to be invulnerable. And you sure as hell can't trust that they won't cooperate with government requests. They've already told you that in their Privacy Disclosure. Note that their cooperation is not limited to subpoenas or court orders or warrants. It just references government requests and investigations.

 

I bought my 12' used back in 15', but it came with a free trial of Sirius and Lojack. So I'm sure I signed over my rights to accept those free services.
Disconnecting my Shark fin GPS seems like a good tracking deterent, but it still doesn't mean someone couldn't hack in locally. I use a BT dongle for system monitoring, so that could get hacked as well. I have a stand alone Dual XGPS I use for Navigation with GAIA, but there is no subscription involved with the GPS unit and the GAIA I usually only use offline, so I wonder if tracking a certain individual would be difficult in that scenario. But they could also go into the GAIA's data base and see what geographical areas I have downloaded to narrow the search parameters. All this in my case is pointless, because I've lived in the same house for 20 years and the same county for 53 years, so they pretty much know where I am 90% of the time anyway. And I have one of the most boring lives of anyone, so they would fall asleep tracking me anyway lol. Foil hat readjust forthcoming....

 

There doesn't appear to be any online method of opting out of all this crap. Do we really have to place a call to Toyota??

 

Oh I'm sure the hoops will be numerous.....
I received sales pitches from Sirius for years after I let my subscription expire.

 

GPS isn't inherently a problem, since the satellites are only sending data to your GPS receiver, not receiving data back. The problem arises when your GPS receiver is connected to the Internet / cellular, or in your case when you upload that data.

BUT, preventing location tracking isn't realistic anyway. There are way too many sources of data on our locations. License plate readers are pretty much everywhere on public roads. Multiple private companies take photos of your license plates on a regular basis. Any company or government agency can buy those photos complete with time, date and GPS data. These photos often show things besides your license plate. They can capture other parts of the vehicle. There are no laws constraining it. That's just one example of location tracking.

That's bad enough. Then there's the ability of either hackers or governments to listen to your private conversations, and to take remote control of your vehicle.

 

A few other thoughts (and we should keep this thread going):

1. The manuals with my 2020 Limited say you can opt out of connected services by pressing the SOS button and talking to Toyota.

2. The Privacy Disclosure linked earlier in this thread contains a mailing address in addition to a phone number. I would recommend verbally opting out and requesting data deletion, then sending a letter to this address to memorialize that verbal request and to reiterate it. We should be able to trust Toyota to follow their own procedures and keep their promises. Just note the caution I made earlier: hackers could still turn these systems back on, and Toyota will do it themselves if asked by the government.

3. My infotainment system contains an option for asking Toyota to delete my personal information.

4. The most helpful things that could come from this thread are:
a) awareness, so people will know the risks
b) awareness, so people will support legislation to better protect our rights and property
c) a good solution for disabling the cellular connection in these vehicles. Yes, you can chop off the shark fin. But that's just the antenna and there must be a better way. Most people don't even know where exactly the cellular transmitter is located.

 

So do you think the cell transmit is tied into the shark fin? Or would be a stand alone unit? Even if you disconnect the fin, the transmitter probably has a back up system of some sort in place.

 

I don't know where the transmitter is but sure would like to. And agree that removing the antenna might not be enough.