Do I really need Crawl Control and terrain select versus A-trac?

People get stuck all the time. Sometimes it's a bad decision. Sometimes it's just a miscalculation. Having an extra tool to get yourself out is never a bad thing.

Most people will never need them, and that's the purpose of this thread. But, that doesn't make them useless or pointless.

 

When one really has to deal with mud or sand...

 

Most of my bad decisions are miscalculations.

 

My old jeep (2004 TJ) had mechanical front and rear lockers and a 5 speed MT. No ABS, No ATRAC, No Crawl Control, No Multi-Terrain, No etc...... It never got stuck. Ever. Not even once.

 

Neat

 

My take, 18 years ago, I bought a 2wd Sequoia thinking that I would not need 4 wheel drive that much. I still remember the price variance, $2,500. I regretted that decision for those 18 years and prevented me from going places where 4x4 “may” have been needed. Speed and inertia are not always your friends. Two months ago, I bought a 2020 TRD ORD premium with all the bells and whistles. I am not repeating the same mistake. I plan to enjoy it for the next 17 years... if I do not need to use it, the will still be there just in case. For me is like buying insurance, but in this case it is for having fun.

 

My feeling exactly,buy it for you and enjoy it!

 

Similar experience - going on 14 years + with my 2006 Nissan Frontier Se 4x4.
Always wanted a rear locker which that model of Frontier was lacking. Aftermarket lockers were / are expensive propositions. While I took the Frontier off road plenty, there were still places that I stopped and turned around where the terrain looked extremely difficult.

Now having the 4Runner with all the bells and whistles + the winch and armor - I keep going.


About a month ago I took my Frontier in to get the AC fixed. Driving home from the shop, I stopped and checked out some ATV trails.
Went down a steep section over a rock ledge. Gravity (going down hill) always makes things easier off road. Turned around and went back up the hill and hit that ledge. Front tires made it up just fine - using momentum. The rear tires in 4wd spun and finally made it up the ledge.

My take away was, my 4Runner with the rear locker engaged or even just traction control engaged in 4high, would've easily climbed that ledge with no drama / no wheel spin.

I like having options and advantages.


Edited to add: I briefly owned a 2wd pickup. I won't make that mistake again.
Snow in Chicago was a Pita. Ground clearance helps on level ground but introduce hills, snow, and ice - forget it.

Went to a machine gun shoot in Wisconsin. Found myself sliding backwards into a ditch. Thankfully there was someone there with a tow rope. Felt like an idiot stuck in that ditch as I watched the guys with 4wd playing in the snow around me!!!

Traded that one in on my 06 Frontier 4x4.

 

SR5 - Atrac

https://youtu.be/6ARYqd9lQRo

 

Me watching that first minute...

 

Pretty good driving too. Don’t try this at home, haha. It reminded me of making the choice to take the two track log bridge instead of fording the raging glacial stream one afternoon in the Yukon long ago. I made it, but it was just luck.

 

ATRAC is an awesome system which will get you out of most stuff. You’ll need the rear locker, crawl control and multi-terrain select when your buddies ask if you have them, that’s when you’ll need it. LoL

 

Haha, although crawl control goes hand in hand with ATRAC, and multi terrain select just controls how aggressive you want it. Just ignore the icon symbols and use it for it is.

 

As @Oldtoyotaguy mentioned, Crawl Control allows you to fine tune A-trac to the conditions.

Those things are fun for showing off to your buddies, but I still believe they're valuable tools in some situations. I've seen a video where a Tacoma was buried in sand and pulled itself out with Crawl control.

I don't really use the crawl control, but I think I might try if I was trying to climb something slippery.

 

You can also get out and help push.

 

ATRAC + Winch > crawl control + MTS

 

ATRAC + Crawl control + MTS + locker + winch > ATRAC + winch.

 

Yes, they are all good and useful in special situations. I do use ATRAC & MTS & the locker on a regular basis. My winch days are behind me, unfortunately.
I wish I did not despise the crude jarring sound and jerky implementation of Toyota crawl control.
I like to crawl around at very slow speed, up and down steep slopes, gnarly terrain and across open meadows, watching the animals and trees & other flora & fauna etc. I always use the hand throttle on older jeeps and on my John Deere, and spent fun solid days in a jeep Rubicon crawling around the meadows last summer on a friend's ranch a bit South of Rocky Mtn National Park watching moose and elks and eagles.
I wish the crawl control did this in somewhat elegant style in my T4R & Taco.

 

I use 4low 1st gear to 3rd gear for that.
1st gear low is great for going down steep rocky hills.


Went out the other day to a nearby ATV trail - got some more pinstripes added to my collection...
1st part is a steep loose rocky descent. 4low 1st gear makes the steepest parts easy.

Next up is a creek crossing - it was dry this time of the year but very rocky. If there was water in it, I'd use my rear locker.
Went through a couple water holes, the trail just got too tight to keep going so I turned around.

On the way back up that hill, I tried MTS - what I think is rock mode (far right on the dial). It made crawl control style anti-lock braking noises going up over some large loose rocks.

Stopped to take a picture. Put the parking brake on, and turned off the engine.
Realized that I had my checkbook with me instead of my cell phone. Dammit - I was all set to get a good poser pic!

Got back in and restarted the truck. Noticed at the top of the hill that MTS doesn't come back on after restarting the truck.
Oh well, I'll play with it more another time.


Here's some of the trail back in April:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOddTD5BYj8

 

But what ever happened to.

TREAT YO SELF!!!!

 

I bought a 2020 ORP for reasons that make worthless sense. LMAO. I wanted a hood scoop, the valences, and its was close to what a TRD PRO had. Minus the suspension. Yes, I wanted the PRO, but it was $9k more. I now wish i just went for it. Regardless, IMO, sr5 will do a lot. The A-Trac, locking rear diff, etc adds a little more umph if necessary. OR vs SR5 just looks a tiny bit more aggressive. However, I think all of us T4R owners are getting swindled by paying a high price for little technology. A pure example is my mom's 2012 highlander has a button to open and close the trunk.

 

Our 4Runners are basically a four legged stool and anyone who knows anything about kinematics knows that only three of the legs are supporting the weight of the stool until you sit on it. Then the fourth leg gets driven into the linoleum floor due to the stools structure having to bear the weight and basically flex to even out the loads. The suspension compliance on our 4Runners helps with this indeterminate nature but when the surface flatness is anything but flat the articulation and ground surface pressure at each of the four tires gets severely challenged as in soft terrain or when lifting a wheel or two on challenging tracs. Invariably the two tires across the length and width of the vehicle with the most ground pressure get all or most all of the traction. The other two become spinnerets and diggers in soft terrain! This is why with a locking differential you can turn even the most terrible non-compliant equipped suspension on a 4X4 into a trail mastering rig. A spartan locker is a very cheap way to go and a step up from that would be a Grizzly locker with clutches and yet still able to properly differentiate on pavement. The ARB has been the kingpin in traction control for many decades and now has competition from the Toyota E-locker and other aftermarket options. Selective spooling of the axle pair is by far the best there is for traction control no matter what the situation.

I have personally observed LR 2's in sand mode bury themselves. The only solution was to turn it off and use seat of the pants experience to get the rig to float and maintain momentum or you were stuck. Even the TC on my P38A 4.6HSE Range Rover would overheat and turn off after a few minutes in challenging traction conditions. The only solution was to put in ARB's to stop this from stranding the vehicle in off road jaunts and to trick the ABS into not turning the brakes off on steep descents on shale strewn hill sides.

The only electronic technology that has impressed me is the torque vectoring that can be accomplished in the likes of a Mitsubishi EVO all wheel drive that is being pushed hard in rally or road racing. Sliding sideways around corners with directional control in hand and still being able to accelerate out of the corner with complete confidence knowing full well you are over the edge is amazing to me.

 

I'm not sure how sand mode works on a Land Rover, but I think the off road traction systems Toyota uses are pretty impressive.

As you mentioned, lockers allow all of the wheels to receive equal power, even when some of them don't have traction. Crawl control, multi terrain select, an A-trac use the brakes to accomplish a similar result. It applies brake to the wheels that are spinning to send power to the wheels that have (some) traction.

I don't consider these systems a replacement for lockers, good tires, and good judgement. But, I am certain that they are valuable tools and, given the option, I wouldn't buy a 4runner without them.

And yes, those rally race cars are totally awesome!

 

I don’t doubt that the early LR systems were crude.

 

Sorry, but I'm impressed by this demonstration of Crawl Control. Could you also have gotten this rig out with a shovel and some sand ladders? Sure, but I'm lazy and easily impressed, I guess.

 

I saw that a few years ago. That video helped convince me that I wanted Crawl control. At the very least, it's another wrench in the tool box if you ever get stuck.

 

I got stuck in a snow patch that was maybe 30 feet across and only 3 inches deep, on flat ground. Crawl control, A-Trac etc. couldn't get me out. It was actually quite embarrassing as it was right on the side of a highway.

I decided I needed to do a U-turn and drove off the highway onto an entrance to a campground with a locked gate. Well the entrance had this tiny little snow patch that was wind swept and hard. I drove onto it and started driving across. The snow was so hard I was driving on top of it. Just as I was about halfway across, "crunch", and 4runner broke through the crust and the wheels dropped the 3". Underneath the snow patch it was a nice smooth ice patch. I tried 4wd first, then the locker, then A-trac and crawl control. I got out of the car and watched all 4 wheels spinning slowly, I tried pushing it to help, but nothing was going to get me out of this. I'm running KO2 tires and they could not cut into the hard snow to get any grip and climb the 3" ledge of snow. I tried rocking the vehicle back and forth but I couldn't even get the thing to rock at all. So cars were passing by and probably laughing their asses off at me, there was zero snow on the highway, it was completely dry. Even the ground was almost completely free of snow at this point. But clearly I am special and was able to get stuck in the one and only tiny snow patch you could find. Luckily I came prepared and had a shovel so I was able to dig out tracks in the snow so I could just roll across the ice underneath.

I should've taken a picture but I thought it was way too embarrassing at the time.

 

That's a great story. Anyone who drives in rural areas should carry a shovel, so good on you. I just carry one of these. It's more work than a full-size, but it'll get the job done.

 

Yeah I always carry a couple of shackles, a tow strap, a 12v tiny/terrible air compressor, and a roll of toilet paper.

When I know I'm going off-road I'll bring a D-handle square shovel and a Pulaski Ax/Fireman Ax (ax on one side, and sort of a pick on the other). I figure with that equipment I should be ok unless I get carried away. My biggest concern is getting too deep in water or mud when you can't really tell how deep its going to get.

 

Going back to the OP’s original question, I don’t think it’s advisable to make a poor financial decision to get MTS & Crawl Control for “minimal/mild off-roading”. A-Trac would suffice, and a 10,000 lb winch would add to give you a peace of mind.