Carpel Tunnel and WBVS HAVS from Unsafe 4Runner Vibrations

CEB, Hello. Thank you for the advice. Only problem is that the Lemon Lawyer got nowhere. The arbitration they force you to endure is more crooked than a corkscrew. The lemon law process isnt any better. Lemon people claim its not defective if "they are all like that". Then, arbitration says 4 opportunities to repair, the actual statute, doesnt apply for Toyota and dismissed my case.
I made an appointment at one of the local Toyota dealers to pay for the NVH PIco Scope diagnostic test, since Toyota wouldnt authorize it (this was after they did the Scope but refused to release the results). I drop the car, they call me back and say "sorry we dont have that tool". I guess IM flagged for life!!! I cant pay a dealer to diagnose my car!! First time a dealer ever refused money!! Remember if its true, its not slander!
Im just gonna keep relating my actual experiences until I find comfort in the truth. The truth will out.
Thanks again, Carpel Toyota

 

Wally, Hello. Sorry for the delay. Dealer refused, Corporate refused, dealer refused again, dealer refused again, corporate did test wouldnt release results, dealer refused again, dealer refused again, offered to pay dealer for the test, they said fine, no problem bring it in, then....dealer refused again.

Opened case file as per warranty instructions regarding "problem resolution" thats when they sent the Field Specialist Tech who.......refused to diagnose the problem.

Carpel tunnel caused by these dangerous vibrations. Confirmed with 2 specialists. Put your hand on the engine block for 10 minutes while its revving at 2k or 3k if you are daring.....let me know how your hand feels after.

Thank you for the help, CarpelToyota

 

Catus,

Hello. Thank you for the inquiry. WBVS is Whole Body Vibration Syndrome. HAVS is Hand Arm Vibration Syndrome. Both are very serious musculoskeletal disorders induced by vibrations. There is significant documentation of these injuries with regard to work related injuries.
The auto industry is well aware of the dangers of vibrations but there isnt any law here in the U.S. that prescribes how much vibration is acceptable in a motor vehicle. Funny thing though.....Toyota and others are well aware of the destructive nature of vibrations on their cars components but they dont care about the driver!
Thanks again, CarpelToyota

 

Nimby, Hello. Sorry for the delay in responding.

Test drove a "like vehicle", they didnt have the color I wanted on the lot. When closing the deal, it was getting dark, the salesperson was in overtime, and they were generally pushing me out the door. First "like vehicle" was identical only a different color. I did not notice any vibrations in the steering wheel on that test drive.

And the next day when I noticed the rusted and scored rotors and rusty lug nuts and the overpowering stench they call "new car smell" you can understand how upset I was. Funny, but I didnt question why all the windows were open when they drove my car up after "make ready". Obviously to let the new car ammonia stench out......

Thank you, CarpelToyota

 

You’re correct, you don’t have a lemon law case. You can complain as much as you want, and attempt to bring it in as much as you want, the required repair attempts are never going to happen because there are no repairs to be made. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s a broken. The whole it’s not a slander if it’s true thing... true or not I don’t think anyone actually cares. You’ve had something to complain about since the day you bought it and it sounds like typical buyers remorse. You bought an old crude truck based platform and now your upset that it acts like an old crude truck based platform.

Luckily for you, you choose to purchase a vehicle with well above average resale value, you can sell it and put the money towards the Bentley you’re looking for.

 

In the absence of a video its not this clear if this is valid or not.

Remember folks correlation is not causation.

If you want to see real steering wheel vibration buy a New Ford Truck. Been in the news alot here in NC.

https://youtu.be/4JV7L8bBo1Q

https://www.torquenews.com/3769/wobble-death-affects-heavy-duty-ford-pickups-well-jeeps-and-others

https://www.lemonlaw.com/wordpress/ford-f250-death-wobble/

https://www.wsoctv.com/video/?id=4834621

 

Gee, If its such an old crude truck platform, I wonder why they have such high resale value? So I guess youre saying old and crude is a good thing? I really dont understand your point. Further I am not too impressed with nasty people like you who apparently joined this forum solely to get their anger and frustrations out on others. Your input helps nobody.

Have a great day!

 

Agent_Outside,
I apologize for not replying to your post in a more timely manner. Perhaps that is why you reacted so angrily and aggressively in your other post....To be certain, "ride quality and comfort" is sort of an advertising slogan. There is more to a car purchase than those two items. Some people buy cars solely based on the color and dont care what make, model, engine size, or how much it costs! Others buy strictly based on price without regard to anything else.

A person can buy a "hot rod" 700 hp Jeep just because its 700 hp.

There are many considerations when buying a car. New or used? Buy, lease? 4 wheel drive, 2wd. Gas or diesel. Foreign, domestic, and on and on and on. It appears that you also have unique criteria. You obviously dont like a "decade old, body on frame, truck chassis".

I had a 1994 Chevy k2500, or maybe it was a K3500, at the moment I dont remember. That was a "decade old, body on frame, truck chassis".

I bought it used with over 100,000 miles on it. Rusted throughout. It was the smoothest riding vehicle I ever drove. Not the smoothest riding truck I ever drove, the smoothest riding vehicle I ever drove.

Ever drive a vehicle older than about 1975 or so? Well in those bygone days almost ALL VEHICLES were "body on frame". You never hear anyone complain about a 1968 Cutlass being of poor "ride quality and comfort" despite it having an actual frame and not a unibody.

There is no correlation between "ride quality and comfort" and whether or not a vehicle has a frame.

I dont think any vehicle is actually designed to harm the driver, I mean, Im sure they could think of better ways to harm someone if they put their engineering minds to it........Perhaps you misunderstood the nature of my post. I have a serious health related problem, due entirely to a transferred engine vibration that does not belong there. There are others who have posted similar complaints on this very forum. I am simply trying to find an answer and a fix. I like almost everything about this vehicle, from the gas mileage to the color, the roominess inside, and even the fact that the rear window rolls down.

"Ride quality and comfort" are not my "top" priorities. But whether that was my criteria or not, I dont think asking for a vehicle that DOESNT cause nerve damage is asking for much.

Thanks again for your response and have a great day,

CarpelToyota

 

Lol, that's a 1st post I've ever seen where someone loves the mpg in a 4runner!

 

Yes, 100% I’m saying that’s a good thing. These are so sought after because it’s old tried and true dead nuts reliable technology. There no 8-9 speed trans, there’s no direct injection or dual fuel systems, until 2020 there has been no driver assist packages. It’s old, simple, will last until the end of time, and you can still buy it brand new, that is absolutely a selling point to a lot of people.

And I’m not sure where you got that impression but nobody has joined this forum to be nasty to you. When I say nobody actually cares I don’t mean that as nobody is sympathetic to your problem, I mean it as nobody who actually matters cares. Toyota doesn’t care, the lawyers don’t care, arbitration didn’t care.... you can spin it however you want but in the end you’re complaining about a medical problem that is aggravated by a vehicle characteristic. That doesn’t mean the vehicle is broken, that doesn’t mean they have to fix it, if I have a bad back and my seat is uncomfortable that’s not Toyota’s problem and, in my opinion, it’s kinda of ridiculous to expect it to be.

An engine is a giant chunk of metal made out of a ton of moving pieces that literally runs on compressing and exploding an air fuel mixture hundreds of times per second... there is going to be some evidence that it’s there doing it’s thing.

Also the complaints of vibrations you see online are wheel/tire/suspension based, not that you can feel an engine running.

 

ForRun, Thanks for the comment. I am not implying it gets GREAT gas mileage, but comparatively, to similar vehicles of olden days, its sort of impressive to me. I always drove used clunkers. Usually 8 cyl, but many 6 cyls as well. Getting 10 or 12 miles per gallon was standard.

This 4Runner with a 6 cyl gets up to 25 mpg on the highway. Local driving, stop and go, average is around 16.8 mpg. Of course, I avoid longer trips because the faster you go (highway speeds) the stronger the transferred engine vibrations, the more painful it becomes.

Glad I could give you a smile!

CarpelToyota

 

J Cat, Hello. Thanks for your reply. I guess that could be a possibility. I will know for sure sometime soon.

I am investing in a NVH Vibration Software app for the smart phone. It promises to detect any possible vibration from engine to trans to road induced. There is a built in library of first order, second order etc etc, and every possible source. The guy who developed it worked with Allison Transmissions in the process.

It is "certified", I guess you could say, by Allison Transmissions. Cost is $400.00 plus the Kiwi3 to source the exact rpm. I will be purchasing very soon. And we will get to the bottom of this finally.

Thanks again,

CarpelToyota

 

I find it very unlikely that you will ever be happy with the 4Runner. In no universe does anybody consider the 4R to be a smooth riding 1970's luxo-barge as there are far more things than frame or unibody that go into the equation.

Drive a Lexus GX460. It is a much smoother ride with fewer vibrations because the 4R isn't for you.

Oh, and I'm not really sure what plants have to do with vibrations or your discomfort.

 

Sorry but this is the funniest thing I've heard in a while. Pretty sure none make OT.

 

4x4Runner,

Hello. I apologize for not replying to your post in a more timely manner. The responses are sort of overwhelming and I didnt expect that.

Well, you have just blown my mind! Your question about "resonant vibration" is very interesting......When I think of resonant frequency or vibration I think of a pure element or mineral. For instance, the resonant frequency of a crystal.

However, what you said makes for a very interesting discussion. One of the excuses the "experts" at Toyota offer is that "they are all like that". Well, it is IMPOSSIBLE to make such a statement without actually measuring ALL OF THEM and comparing the vibrations. One could say many of them have SIMILAR vibrations but you cant say they are all the same.

Lets say your alternator was overcharging and frying the battery over the course of 6 months. You complain and they say "they are all like that". They know the output should be, say 13.6 volts, and they have tested many defective units and they are all putting out 16.5 volts for the sake of argument.

But then you come along and say "but my battery is being destroyed every month, not every six months" but they blow you off with their typical "we are superior to you attitude" and say "they are all like that" without measuring the voltage of your vehicle. Turns out you have hired a private licensed mechanic who certified he measured your voltage was 19.5 volts, you show them the mechanics findings and they say "screw you".

If voltages vary infinitely, and they are relatively easy to discern with a simple meter, how on earth can you say "they are all like that" with respect to something much more complex like a transferred engine vibration, without measuring the vibration levels?

So what I am getting at is your statement about "resonant vibration" and different vibrations effecting people differently argues more for being a defect. Since they arent "all the same".

Talk soon,

CarpelToyota

 

What is it your trying to accomplish? So you’re buying this Allison Transmission certified NVH cell phone software. You’re going to spend a bunch of this time and money doing your own testing. Then what? You get to say “Look! Some engine vibration is being transmitted, I knew it!” and it still isn’t a “problem” with the vehicle, it’s still not broken, it still won’t make lemon law relevant, you still own it, and it’s still an obviously poor fit for you and your medical condition.

What is it you’re hoping to accomplish with thread? From the outside looking in it doesn’t look like a customer who’s been done wrong that is fighting the good fight to stick it to man, it just kinda comes off as a complainer complaining. If the goal is to just complain out loud and vent about the situation, that’s cool, I get that and if that’s the case I’ll just f*ck right off and move along as to not rain on your parade, but I don’t get the impression that’s your end goal.

 

Dillusion, Thank you for your interest and a smile! I didnt necessarily mean they were earning overtime, but that the salesperson was off at 5:00 pm or whatever, and here it was an hour and a half past the time she wanted to go home. And if you want funny, you should have seen her lick her fingers and try to wipe off a huge dirt smear from one of the liners after it had just come out of "make ready". Heres a huge apparent foot mark about 6" wide by 24" long along the rear interior panel and shes trying to clean it with a wet finger! Her DNA is still in my vehicle!

Thank you,

CarpelToyota

 

4x4Runner, Thanks again for another reply. Its funny that you mention that about motorcycles. The vibrations throughout my vehicle arent even as GOOD AS a motorcycle! My neighbors first impression when I let him feel the steering wheel while pulled over on the side of the road in park, engine revving at about 1500rpm was "feels like a MINI BIKE!!!"

CarpelToyota

 

Not test driving a vehicle you're purchasing is a catastrophic mistake on your part, no matter what the situation is at the moment of purchase.

If the salesperson needs to leave for the day, then come back tomorrow or go to a dealer that cares enough not to pressure you in any way.

Since this problem was evident from the very beginning, then the blame lies squarely on you.

 

For fuck sakes. OP has to be putting us on here. Caused CT and some other horseshit?? What???
Sell it and get a prius.
Done.

 

Somehow I'm thinking that somebody with a medical condition (that generally requires surgery to correct) would know how to spell said condition.

 

Didn't catch that, but you're right.

 

While the OP writes fairly well, the "carpel" makes little sense - especially when it is also his forum name.

He also appears fixated on having the dealership identify a problem that isn't peculiar to his car. I'm afraid that he needs professional help that we cannot provide here.

Barring that, all he needs to do is trade the car in on something else - he bought the wrong car.

While there are reports of vibrations generally related to tires, the problem here is general NVH and I'm sure that his 4R is no different than any others. If a lemon lawyer has blown him off and arbitration has brought nothing, then arguing with dealers and corporate is tilting at windmills.

 

I am sure a woman would love his runner it would act like a vibrator..

 

I googled what op states his runner did to him and it appears to be a lawyer induced injury that must pay well because a crapton of lawyers are advertising.
Just my opinion is that if op had this condition any car, power tool, elevator, train airplane, hell even our coffee machine at work shakes. So why buy an off-road vehicle and expect an air ride suspension. Wonder if medical weed would help, seems to work for most?

 

Rule #1 of car buying:
Always be ready to walk away from a deal.

I’m sorry you’ve been dealing with these problems. How many miles have you driven it? Are you sure it’s not from driving position? I have to be careful with my left hand from resting my arm on the door panel...I have tendency to jam my fingers in between the wheel.

Can you show us the vibration in a video? It’s hard to imagine it would be intense enough to cause a problem like what your describing by itself.

Trade it in for a Highlander

 

Problem is somewhere between the steering wheel and the driver's seat.

 

I wouldn't go that far, but he bought the wrong car.

 

Na I concur with Normantaco.

Excessive vibration causing vaginosis or whatever ailment? Fucking please. Engines vibrate. Things engines are bolted to vibrate. Millions - hell, motherfucking billions - of people have operated and ridden in all manner of internal combustion propelled vehicles since the inception of the engine and OP is like the seventh person in history to have this great medical crisis.

Even if - and that's a big "if" - I buy his made up ailment... say he really does break out in hives and wet his pants every time his cell phone buzzes... you'd have to ask yourself the question of why he insists on still driving the vehicle and trying to force a fix on it.

I mean, if every time you grabbed a barbed wire fence you cut your hand, how many times would you grab the barbed wire fence?

 

So here is the issue. If the OP believes that he has an issue, then we must take him at his word that he has a problem - real or imaginary.

But then it comes back down to the fact that he bought the wrong car. There is nothing that the dealer, manufacturer or this forum can do to fix the 4R so that it won't make his body tingly all over (in a bad way)